When I've got a bunch of files open, with the tabs visible, and they take up more than the window width, the little left/right triangle buttons show up. They currently are supposed to allow me to switch from one tab to the next in the given direction of the button.
A problem I'm noticing is 3-fold:
1. The user usually doesn't need to switch from file to file this way. If they've gone and reached for the mouse, they may as well just click on the tab itself to get the file.
2. If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and wants to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to using the Open Files tab (or else use a Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} key to "round the horn" to get there).
3. There seems to be a bug where, when I click the triangle button, it moves over multiple files at-a-time, passing through two or more as it goes.
To me, Firefox's behaviour (when using tabbed browsing) makes more sense: the triangle/arrow widget buttons horizontally scroll the *view* of the tabs, rather than switching you from tab to tab.
Also, since Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn nowadays let you wrap around to the tab on the other end of the row, I think it would be useful to have:
Shift-Ctrl-PgUp -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far left Shift-Ctrl-PgDn -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far right
where, if the tab on the far left was obscured, and you hit Shift-Ctrl-PgUp, it would also automatically slide the view of the row of tabs all the way to the left, so you could see the tab you just switched to.
---John
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:10:10 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
When I've got a bunch of files open, with the tabs visible, and they take up more than the window width, the little left/right triangle buttons show up. They currently are supposed to allow me to switch from one tab to the next in the given direction of the button.
A problem I'm noticing is 3-fold:
- The user usually doesn't need to switch from file to file this way.
If they've gone and reached for the mouse, they may as well just click on the tab itself to get the file.
But it doesn't hurt if they are just available. Ok, there is a few less horizontal space for the tabs but it is just common (for GTK apps) to have these arrows. They are also indeed useful when you are in a tab on the left or right edge of the tab list and want to get just to the next tab which is obscured.
- If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and wants
to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to
Why not just click on the last visible tab and then use the arrow to scroll further?
- There seems to be a bug where, when I click the triangle button, it
moves over multiple files at-a-time, passing through two or more as it goes.
Which GTK version do you use? I think there were some issues with GTK 2.8. But I'm not sure at the moment.
To me, Firefox's behaviour (when using tabbed browsing) makes more sense: the triangle/arrow widget buttons horizontally scroll the *view* of the tabs, rather than switching you from tab to tab.
But the current behaviour is the GTK default and couldn't be changed easily, AFAIK.
Also, since Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn nowadays let you wrap around to the tab on the other end of the row, I think it would be useful to have:
Shift-Ctrl-PgUp -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far left Shift-Ctrl-PgDn -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far right
Did you try Alt-1 and Alt-0?
Regards, Enrico
On 7/11/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:10:10 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
When I've got a bunch of files open, with the tabs visible, and they take up more than the window width, the little left/right triangle buttons show up. They currently are supposed to allow me to switch from one tab to the next in the given direction of the button.
A problem I'm noticing is 3-fold:
- The user usually doesn't need to switch from file to file this way.
If they've gone and reached for the mouse, they may as well just click on the tab itself to get the file.
But it doesn't hurt if they are just available. Ok, there is a few less horizontal space for the tabs but it is just common (for GTK apps) to have these arrows. They are also indeed useful when you are in a tab on the left or right edge of the tab list and want to get just to the next tab which is obscured.
Right. I like the arrows. Just seems to me that their behaviour is not optimal.
- If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and wants
to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to
Why not just click on the last visible tab and then use the arrow to scroll further?
Yes, I see that works too.
- There seems to be a bug where, when I click the triangle button, it
moves over multiple files at-a-time, passing through two or more as it goes.
Which GTK version do you use? I think there were some issues with GTK 2.8. But I'm not sure at the moment.
Hm. Both my system at home and the one here at work are running the current Ubuntu (7.04 - the "Feisty Fawn"), but like a pet that only does a trick when no one else is watching, I can't reproduce the bug on this system. This Ubuntu is using libgtk2: 2.10.11-0ubuntu3. When I get back to the other system I'll try to get you something that can be reproduced.
To me, Firefox's behaviour (when using tabbed browsing) makes more sense: the triangle/arrow widget buttons horizontally scroll the *view* of the tabs, rather than switching you from tab to tab.
But the current behaviour is the GTK default and couldn't be changed easily, AFAIK.
I see.
Also, since Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn nowadays let you wrap around to the tab on the other end of the row, I think it would be useful to have:
Shift-Ctrl-PgUp -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far left Shift-Ctrl-PgDn -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far right
Did you try Alt-1 and Alt-0?
Didn't know about those! Nice. Incidentally, I can't seem to locate the list of standard GTK+ key bindings. I thought they might be in http://gtk.org/tutorial/ , but I'm not finding them. They're not here http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/input-keyboard.html either. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks, ---John
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:12:28 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/11/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:10:10 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
When I've got a bunch of files open, with the tabs visible, and they take up more than the window width, the little left/right triangle buttons show up. They currently are supposed to allow me to switch from one tab to the next in the given direction of the button.
A problem I'm noticing is 3-fold:
- If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and
wants to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to
Why not just click on the last visible tab and then use the arrow to scroll further?
Yes, I see that works too.
Another possibility is to just right-click on any tab and choose the desired tab from the opening list. This is the way I mostly navigate through tabs which are far away from each other.
Also, since Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn nowadays let you wrap around to the tab on the other end of the row, I think it would be useful to have:
Shift-Ctrl-PgUp -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far left Shift-Ctrl-PgDn -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far right
Did you try Alt-1 and Alt-0?
Didn't know about those! Nice. Incidentally, I can't seem to locate the list of standard GTK+ key bindings. I thought they might be in http://gtk.org/tutorial/ , but I'm not finding them. They're not here http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/input-keyboard.html either. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Alt-[1-0] are defined by Geany and can't be changed. Alt-[1-9] switches to the 9 left tabs according to the typed number and Alt-0 switches to the most right tab. While writing this, an idea comes to my mind: perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the "Placement of new file tabs" option. Nick, what do you think?
Regards, Enrico
On 7/11/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:12:28 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/11/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Why not just click on the last visible tab and then use the arrow to scroll further?
Yes, I see that works too.
Another possibility is to just right-click on any tab and choose the desired tab from the opening list. This is the way I mostly navigate through tabs which are far away from each other.
Ah. I like that the listing shown when you right-click on a tab is in the same order as the tabs themselves as they appear left-to-right. (And if you want them alphabetical, they're that way in the "Open files" tab.)
On 07/11/2007 06:52:40 PM, Enrico Tröger wrote:
Alt-[1-0] are defined by Geany and can't be changed. Alt-[1-9] switches to the 9 left tabs according to the typed number and Alt-0 switches to the most right tab. While writing this, an idea comes to my mind: perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the "Placement of new file tabs" option. Nick, what do you think?
Sounds good. I think someone requested that behaviour when I first added it, and I implemented it but without adding a preference(!) See the swap_alt_tab_order variable in keybindings.c.
Regards, Nick
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:26:23 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On 07/11/2007 06:52:40 PM, Enrico Tröger wrote:
Alt-[1-0] are defined by Geany and can't be changed. Alt-[1-9] switches to the 9 left tabs according to the typed number and Alt-0 switches to the most right tab. While writing this, an idea comes to my mind: perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the "Placement of new file tabs" option. Nick, what do you think?
Sounds good. I think someone requested that behaviour when I first added it, and I implemented it but without adding a preference(!) See the swap_alt_tab_order variable in keybindings.c.
Oops, it seems I overlooked this variable at all ;-). I think we don't need to add an additional preference for it, just use it.
Regards, Enrico
On 7/12/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:26:23 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On 07/11/2007 06:52:40 PM, Enrico Tröger wrote:
Alt-[1-0] are defined by Geany and can't be changed. Alt-[1-9] switches to the 9 left tabs according to the typed number and Alt-0 switches to the most right tab. While writing this, an idea comes to my mind: perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the "Placement of new file tabs" option. Nick, what do you think?
Sounds good. I think someone requested that behaviour when I first added it, and I implemented it but without adding a preference(!) See the swap_alt_tab_order variable in keybindings.c.
Oops, it seems I overlooked this variable at all ;-). I think we don't need to add an additional preference for it, just use it.
Enrico, I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding you. Could you please explain what you meant by "perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the 'Placement of new file tabs' option."?
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:39:17 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/12/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:26:23 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On 07/11/2007 06:52:40 PM, Enrico Tröger wrote:
Alt-[1-0] are defined by Geany and can't be changed. Alt-[1-9] switches to the 9 left tabs according to the typed number and Alt-0 switches to the most right tab. While writing this, an idea comes to my mind: perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the "Placement of new file tabs" option. Nick, what do you think?
Sounds good. I think someone requested that behaviour when I first added it, and I implemented it but without adding a preference(!) See the swap_alt_tab_order variable in keybindings.c.
Oops, it seems I overlooked this variable at all ;-). I think we don't need to add an additional preference for it, just use it.
Enrico, I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding you. Could you please explain what you meant by "perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the 'Placement of new file tabs' option."?
I guessed it could be hard to understand for others because it was hard to me to express it ;-). I try again: Currently, pressing Alt-1 switches to the most left document. Alt-1 to the document right of the most left one and so on. Alt-0 switches to the most right document.
You know about "Placement of new file tabs" option? It defines whether new file tabs are placed on the left or right edge of the notebook.
The idea was to change the behaviour of the Alt-number shortcuts according to the setting of "Placement of new file tabs".
That is, when using - "Placement of new file tabs" -> Right Alt-1 switches to the most left(first opened) document Alt-2 switches to the right of the most left(second opened) document ... Alt-0 switches to the most right(last opened) document - "Placement of new file tabs" -> Left Alt-1 switches to the most right(first opened) document Alt-2 switches to the left of the most right(second opened) document ... Alt-0 switches to the most left(last opened) document
The code was already written by Nick and just has to be enabled. I would suggest to just enable it without adding a preference or at least without adding a GUI preference for it.
Regards, Enrico
On 7/16/07, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:39:17 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
Enrico, I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding you. Could you please explain what you meant by "perhaps this could be inverted (tabs 1-9 from left to right, and most right tab to most left tab) according to the 'Placement of new file tabs' option."?
I guessed it could be hard to understand for others because it was hard to me to express it ;-). I try again: Currently, pressing Alt-1 switches to the most left document. Alt-1
Alt-2
to the document right of the most left one and so on. Alt-0 switches to the most right document.
Right. This current setup makes sense to me, though I don't think I'd ever use any of those keys except Alt-1 and Alt-0. The others I'd just get to with Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn}, or else with the mouse.
You know about "Placement of new file tabs" option? It defines whether new file tabs are placed on the left or right edge of the notebook.
Ah. Yes. I'd only ever left that set to place new tabs on the right.
The idea was to change the behaviour of the Alt-number shortcuts according to the setting of "Placement of new file tabs".
That is, when using
- "Placement of new file tabs" -> Right Alt-1 switches to the most left(first opened) document Alt-2 switches to the right of the most left(second opened) document ... Alt-0 switches to the most right(last opened) document
Yes. Just as it does currently.
- "Placement of new file tabs" -> Left Alt-1 switches to the most right(first opened) document Alt-2 switches to the left of the most right(second opened) document ... Alt-0 switches to the most left(last opened) document
Eeek. Ok, I get it now. I thought using the '1' and '0' keys was easy to remember because '1' is all the way on the left (Alt-1 sends you to left-most tab) and '0' is all the way on the right (Alt-0 sends you to right-most tab). Having them work backwards just because new tabs get opened on the left (instead of the right) seems very odd to me. I think it would be a mistake to make that behaviour the default.
Incidentally, since I'm already using Ctrl keys (Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} and Ctrl-Tab) to move between tabs, it feels a bit weird to also use the Alt key (Alt-1, Alt-0, etc.) to move between tabs. My bet is that Shift-Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} would be more natural for going to {left-,right-}most tabs, respectively. My guess is that users rarely, if at all, use the Alt-number keys besides Alt-1 and Alt-0 (though I'm sure you'd be curious to hear if anyone is).
---John
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:44:51 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
- "Placement of new file tabs" -> Left Alt-1 switches to the most right(first opened) document Alt-2 switches to the left of the most right(second opened)
document ... Alt-0 switches to the most left(last opened) document
Eeek. Ok, I get it now. I thought using the '1' and '0' keys was easy to remember because '1' is all the way on the left (Alt-1 sends you to left-most tab) and '0' is all the way on the right (Alt-0 sends you to right-most tab). Having them work backwards just because new tabs get opened on the left (instead of the right) seems very odd to me. I think it would be a mistake to make that behaviour the default.
I don't think so because if you expect Alt-1 for the first opened doc and Alt-0 for the last opened one then it makes more sense to invert the behaviour according to the tabs placement setting. Anyway, the last months nobody comlained and I can also live with the current behaviour so we don't have to change it (and when I'm starting to feel really uncomfortable with the behaviour I know how to change it for me ;-)).
Incidentally, since I'm already using Ctrl keys (Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} and Ctrl-Tab) to move between tabs, it feels a bit weird to also use the Alt key (Alt-1, Alt-0, etc.) to move between tabs. My bet is that Shift-Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} would be more natural for going to {left-,right-}most tabs, respectively. My guess is that users rarely, if at all, use the Alt-number keys besides Alt-1 and Alt-0 (though I'm sure you'd be curious to hear if anyone is).
Well, at least me uses it and the feature was requested by someone via the feature request tracker at sf.net so chances are high enough there is someone else besides me ;-).
Regards, Enrico
On 07/10/2007 07:10:10 AM, John Gabriele wrote:
When I've got a bunch of files open, with the tabs visible, and they take up more than the window width, the little left/right triangle buttons show up. They currently are supposed to allow me to switch from one tab to the next in the given direction of the button.
A problem I'm noticing is 3-fold:
- The user usually doesn't need to switch from file to file this way.
If they've gone and reached for the mouse, they may as well just click on the tab itself to get the file.
- If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and wants
to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to using the Open Files tab (or else use a Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} key to "round the horn" to get there).
I agree. I think this should be changed in Gtk. You might be interested in these bugs:
"Arrows of tabs just like arrows of menus" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377441
More general but also covering notebook arrows: "GtkNotebook should use multiple rows" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110540
Also, since Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn nowadays let you wrap around to the tab on the other end of the row, I think it would be useful to have:
Shift-Ctrl-PgUp -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far left Shift-Ctrl-PgDn -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far right
where, if the tab on the far left was obscured, and you hit Shift-Ctrl-PgUp, it would also automatically slide the view of the row of tabs all the way to the left, so you could see the tab you just switched to.
Hmm, maybe. Ideally Gtk+ should be changed IMO, but perhaps those shortcuts could be useful in the meantime. (I assume you mean visible tabs rather than absolute first and last; as Enrico points out Alt-1, Alt-0 can do this).
Regards, Nick
On 7/11/07, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On 07/10/2007 07:10:10 AM, John Gabriele wrote:
When I've got a bunch of files open, with the tabs visible, and they take up more than the window width, the little left/right triangle buttons show up. They currently are supposed to allow me to switch from one tab to the next in the given direction of the button.
A problem I'm noticing is 3-fold:
- The user usually doesn't need to switch from file to file this way.
If they've gone and reached for the mouse, they may as well just click on the tab itself to get the file.
- If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and wants
to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to using the Open Files tab (or else use a Ctrl-Pg{Up,Dn} key to "round the horn" to get there).
I agree. I think this should be changed in Gtk. You might be interested in these bugs:
"Arrows of tabs just like arrows of menus" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377441
Ah, that's it. I see that it's from November of last year. Maybe they're just waiting for a patch from someone. Odd that the bug is still labeled "UNCONFIRMED".
More general but also covering notebook arrows: "GtkNotebook should use multiple rows" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110540
Also, since Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDn nowadays let you wrap around to the tab on the other end of the row, I think it would be useful to have:
Shift-Ctrl-PgUp -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far left Shift-Ctrl-PgDn -- gets you all the way to the tab on the far right
where, if the tab on the far left was obscured, and you hit Shift-Ctrl-PgUp, it would also automatically slide the view of the row of tabs all the way to the left, so you could see the tab you just switched to.
Hmm, maybe. Ideally Gtk+ should be changed IMO,
Yes.
but perhaps those shortcuts could be useful in the meantime. (I assume you mean visible tabs rather than absolute first and last; as Enrico points out Alt-1, Alt-0 can do this).
No, I meant what Enrico pointed out. I think switching to the far left or right *visible* tab might give the user the impression that they went all the way to the end, even though there might be more tabs hidden past it. :)
Thanks, ---John
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:15:36 -0400, "John Gabriele" jmg3000@gmail.com wrote:
- If the user is editing a file in a tab far to one side, and
wants to go to a tab that's obscured on the other side, they need to either repeatedly click that triangle button to get there, or else resort to using the Open Files tab (or else use a Ctrl-Pg {Up,Dn} key to "round the horn" to get there).
I agree. I think this should be changed in Gtk. You might be interested in these bugs:
"Arrows of tabs just like arrows of menus" http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377441
Ah, that's it. I see that it's from November of last year. Maybe they're just waiting for a patch from someone. Odd that the bug is still labeled "UNCONFIRMED".
Maybe just adding a comment to the bug report helps to get it back in the mind of the devs (at least in my case it helps sometimes, if anyone is still missing a bug fix or feature I promised in the past, remind me ;-)).
Regards, Enrico