I found SciTE/scintilla a few months ago, and a few days ago learned about Geany--it looks good to me--some of the things I was wishing were part of SciTE seem to be already part of Geany.
But, I have some off-point questions: The manual (at file:///usr/share/doc/geany/html/index.html) is too wide for me to reasonably read. I have to scroll horizontally to read each line of text, even with shrinking the font to the limit in konqueror. (I'm older, and I generally use larger fonts to make reading easier.)
I could copy and paste the document into an editor (like Geany) where the lines do wrap to the width of the window, but I lose a lot of the formatting and conveniences (like links) that way.
I see that the document is written in reStructuredText and then, iiuc, rendered (is that the right word) using docutils. Does anyone (here) know how to tell docutils (or reST) how to wrap the text to a narrower width (shorter line length)?
(I checked a few of the lines and got a character count around 115 characters per line.)
Continuing with similar questions, is there something in the text of the manual that forces the lines to such a long length, maybe either pictures or the tables that are included? If so, is there a way to tell docutils to wrap the rest of the text to a narrower width? (So I'd only have to horizontally scroll for the pictures or tables?--I don't really like having to horizontally scroll for those, either, but it's better than having to horizontally scroll for every line in the document.)
Or, alternatively, a way to tell docutils to leave the lines unwrapped so the browser can wrap them to the width of the browser window, while leaving pictures or tables at their full width?
I did try googling for docutils to find information or someone to ask there--I didn't find either the information or an obvious contact, so I thought I'd try here first.
Thanks! Randy Kramer
Hello, you can copy/paste text in OpenOffice.org or Miscrisoft Office.
2009/8/29 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com
I found SciTE/scintilla a few months ago, and a few days ago learned about Geany--it looks good to me--some of the things I was wishing were part of SciTE seem to be already part of Geany.
But, I have some off-point questions: The manual (at file:///usr/share/doc/geany/html/index.html) is too wide for me to reasonably read. I have to scroll horizontally to read each line of text, even with shrinking the font to the limit in konqueror. (I'm older, and I generally use larger fonts to make reading easier.)
I could copy and paste the document into an editor (like Geany) where the lines do wrap to the width of the window, but I lose a lot of the formatting and conveniences (like links) that way.
I see that the document is written in reStructuredText and then, iiuc, rendered (is that the right word) using docutils. Does anyone (here) know how to tell docutils (or reST) how to wrap the text to a narrower width (shorter line length)?
(I checked a few of the lines and got a character count around 115 characters per line.)
Continuing with similar questions, is there something in the text of the manual that forces the lines to such a long length, maybe either pictures or the tables that are included? If so, is there a way to tell docutils to wrap the rest of the text to a narrower width? (So I'd only have to horizontally scroll for the pictures or tables?--I don't really like having to horizontally scroll for those, either, but it's better than having to horizontally scroll for every line in the document.)
Or, alternatively, a way to tell docutils to leave the lines unwrapped so the browser can wrap them to the width of the browser window, while leaving pictures or tables at their full width?
I did try googling for docutils to find information or someone to ask there--I didn't find either the information or an obvious contact, so I thought I'd try here first.
Thanks! Randy Kramer _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:53:14 -0400, Randy wrote:
Hi randy,
I see that the document is written in reStructuredText and then, iiuc, rendered (is that the right word) using docutils. Does anyone (here) know how to tell docutils (or reST) how to wrap the text to a narrower width (shorter line length)?
(I checked a few of the lines and got a character count around 115 characters per line.)
[...]
Or, alternatively, a way to tell docutils to leave the lines unwrapped so the browser can wrap them to the width of the browser window, while leaving pictures or tables at their full width?
I did try googling for docutils to find information or someone to ask there--I didn't find either the information or an obvious contact, so I thought I'd try here first.
You were on the right way. Though docutils don't wrap the text at all, it's done with our custom CSS file. Find line 15 of doc/geany.css which reads like: width: 60em; in the "body" class. IIRC it defines the document width. You can either change it or remove it to have unwrapped lines, so your browser can do it on its own. Alternatively, you can change the used CSS style in your browser to use the "print" version. E.g. in Firefox click on View->Page Style->No Style, not sure how to do it in Konqueror.
Regards, Enrico
On Saturday 29 August 2009 01:02:03 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
You were on the right way. Though docutils don't wrap the text at all, it's done with our custom CSS file. Find line 15 of doc/geany.css which reads like: width: 60em; in the "body" class. IIRC it defines the document width. You can either change it or remove it to have unwrapped lines, so your browser can do it on its own. Alternatively, you can change the used CSS style in your browser to use the "print" version. E.g. in Firefox click on View->Page Style->No Style, not sure how to do it in Konqueror.
Enrico,
Thanks very much! The end result is fine, and, in fact, I'll have to remember to try a similar trick when I find other web pages that are too wide to read.
I expound / clarify a few things, some for you, and some for anybody else that wants to try the same thing, and then I have one question:
* it turned out that changing doc/geany.css didn't work because there is a copy of the stylesheet embedded in the manual (geany.html)--it starts at line 20 which says: "@media screen {". I commented out the width specification a few lines below that (with /* */)
* this approach works for reading a local (downloaded) copy of the manual. One way of downloading it is by using svn to download the entire geany source tree. The manual is then under doc/geany.html.
This approach works very well--the main text wraps to the width of my browser's window, and, if I had a narrow enough window, I might have to horizontally scroll for some wide lines within HTML <pre> </pre> tags. Perfect--just the way it should work ;-)
Question: Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be done for the copy of the manual on the web site?
Thanks again!
regards, Randy Kramer
PS: I also looked at your suggestion using the "print" version on Firefox (well, Iceweasel on Debian). That works fine, but, loses the background and some similar features--not really a problem. I couldn't quite find a similar feature on konqueror--there are two almost similar features, but the one is not as nice as the Firefox feature, and the other didn't work for me:
1) when you go Location -> Print to print a page and do a print preview, it will wrap to the width of the paper, but you can only view that as a print preview, which is not so friendly--links don't work--it's just an image of a printed page
2) under Settings -> Configure Konqueror -> Stylesheets there are some options that look like they should be helpful, one to use an "Accessibility Stylesheet" with a very limited amount of customization, and the second to use a "user defined stylesheet". I tried both options (I tried to use a downloaded copy of geary.css as the user defined spreadsheet), and neither one seemed to have any effect
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:48:41 -0400, Randy wrote:
On Saturday 29 August 2009 01:02:03 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
You were on the right way. Though docutils don't wrap the text at all, it's done with our custom CSS file. Find line 15 of doc/geany.css which reads like: width: 60em; in the "body" class. IIRC it defines the document width. You can either change it or remove it to have unwrapped lines, so your browser can do it on its own. Alternatively, you can change the used CSS style in your browser to use the "print" version. E.g. in Firefox click on View->Page Style->No Style, not sure how to do it in Konqueror.
Enrico,
Thanks very much! The end result is fine, and, in fact, I'll have to remember to try a similar trick when I find other web pages that are too wide to read.
I expound / clarify a few things, some for you, and some for anybody else that wants to try the same thing, and then I have one question:
- it turned out that changing doc/geany.css didn't work because
there is a copy of the stylesheet embedded in the manual (geany.html)--it starts at line 20 which says: "@media screen {". I commented out the width specification a few lines below that (with /* */)
Yo, sorry. I forgot to mention that you have to regenerate the .html file after changing the .css file.
- this approach works for reading a local (downloaded) copy of the
manual. One way of downloading it is by using svn to download the entire geany source tree. The manual is then under doc/geany.html.
This approach works very well--the main text wraps to the width of my browser's window, and, if I had a narrow enough window, I might have to horizontally scroll for some wide lines within HTML <pre> </pre> tags. Perfect--just the way it should work ;-)
Question: Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be done for the copy of the manual on the web site?
Not much. I personally just don't like if it is not wrapped because then it looks very ugly and is harder to read on my 22" wide screen. But this is a very personal thing, not really counting. Still not sure if we should change it.
PS: I also looked at your suggestion using the "print" version on Firefox (well, Iceweasel on Debian). That works fine, but, loses the
Yup, I'm using Debian and so Iceweasel as well but not everyone knows Iceweasel while it seems all the world knows Firefox :).
- when you go Location -> Print to print a page and do a print
preview, it will wrap to the width of the paper, but you can only view that as a print preview, which is not so friendly--links don't work--it's just an image of a printed page
- under Settings -> Configure Konqueror -> Stylesheets there are
some options that look like they should be helpful, one to use an "Accessibility Stylesheet" with a very limited amount of customization, and the second to use a "user defined stylesheet". I tried both options (I tried to use a downloaded copy of geary.css as the user defined spreadsheet), and neither one seemed to have any effect
No idea, never used Konqueror.
Regards, Enrico
On Sunday 30 August 2009 08:48:51 am Enrico Tröger wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:48:41 -0400, Randy wrote:
On Saturday 29 August 2009 01:02:03 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
- it turned out that changing doc/geany.css didn't work because
there is a copy of the stylesheet embedded in the manual (geany.html)--it starts at line 20 which says: "@media screen {". I commented out the width specification a few lines below that (with /* */)
Yo, sorry. I forgot to mention that you have to regenerate the .html file after changing the .css file.
No problem, I assume that would be regenerated with docutils, and for the time being, I don't need to learn how to do it. ;-)
Question: Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be done for the copy of the manual on the web site?
Not much. I personally just don't like if it is not wrapped because then it looks very ugly and is harder to read on my 22" wide screen. But this is a very personal thing, not really counting. Still not sure if we should change it.
I'm curious: Are you talking about when you read it in a browser--I ask because your browser would wrap it to the width of the browser window, wouldn't it? Or are you talking about viewing the HTML file sort of "raw" in an editor?
I looked at some web design guidelines that take into account human usability factors--the ones I found all recommend a quite short line based on the eye's area of acute focus. (And the subsequent need to move your eyes or your head to scan longer lines.) I take it you don't notice a problem?
Anyway, thanks again for the information, and for Geany!
regards, Randy Kramer
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:19:40 -0400, Randy wrote:
Question: Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be done for the copy of the manual on the web site?
Not much. I personally just don't like if it is not wrapped because then it looks very ugly and is harder to read on my 22" wide screen. But this is a very personal thing, not really counting. Still not sure if we should change it.
I'm curious: Are you talking about when you read it in a browser--I ask because your browser would wrap it to the width of the browser window, wouldn't it? Or are you talking about viewing the HTML file sort of "raw" in an editor?
I'm talking about viewing the HTML in a browser, like most people do, I guess :). Btw, resizing the browser window does work but is not that comfortable as Lex already said, especially when working with tabs.
I looked at some web design guidelines that take into account human usability factors--the ones I found all recommend a quite short line based on the eye's area of acute focus. (And the subsequent need to move your eyes or your head to scan longer lines.) I take it you don't notice a problem?
Well, I completely understand your issue. And basically I tend to agree that a fixed width is not good. OTOH I just like the reduced width as it does read better for me on my widescreen (as already pointed out). But yes, not everybody has a widescreen, not everybody likes tiny fonts as I do and so on.
So, maybe we should indeed remove the fixed width to make it easier for most users to read.
Regards, Enrico
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 02:23:39 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
Well, I completely understand your issue. And basically I tend to agree that a fixed width is not good. OTOH I just like the reduced width as it does read better for me on my widescreen (as already pointed out). But yes, not everybody has a widescreen, not everybody likes tiny fonts as I do and so on.
So, maybe we should indeed remove the fixed width to make it easier for most users to read.
Lex made/found a suggestion to change the line: width: 60em; to: max-width: 60em;
And that seems to work well for me and for him--if it works for you, that seems to be a good solution. (I haven't spent much time testing it, but it's hard to imagine what could go wrong...bad move, hunh ;-)
Randy Kramer
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:01:59 -0400, Randy wrote:
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 02:23:39 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
Well, I completely understand your issue. And basically I tend to agree that a fixed width is not good. OTOH I just like the reduced width as it does read better for me on my widescreen (as already pointed out). But yes, not everybody has a widescreen, not everybody likes tiny fonts as I do and so on.
So, maybe we should indeed remove the fixed width to make it easier for most users to read.
Lex made/found a suggestion to change the line: width: 60em; to: max-width: 60em;
And that seems to work well for me and for him--if it works for you, that seems to be a good solution. (I haven't spent much time testing it, but it's hard to imagine what could go wrong...bad move, hunh ;-)
Oops, I was too slow. I replied about this in the other mail, sorry for the confusion. Still, Lex' suggestion is great and as I said, I also don't see a reason why we shouldn't it.
Regards, Enrico
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 04:56:28 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
Oops, I was too slow. I replied about this in the other mail, sorry for the confusion. Still, Lex' suggestion is great and as I said, I also don't see a reason why we shouldn't it.
Enrico,
Hey, my fault, and no real confusion--I should have just left the other message instead of sending two.
But, anyway, sounds wonderful!
Randy Kramer
Barry van Oudtshoorn www.barryvan.com.au
Enrico Tröger wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:48:41 -0400, Randy wrote:
On Saturday 29 August 2009 01:02:03 pm Enrico Tröger wrote:
You were on the right way. Though docutils don't wrap the text at all, it's done with our custom CSS file. Find line 15 of doc/geany.css which reads like: width: 60em; in the "body" class. IIRC it defines the document width. You can either change it or remove it to have unwrapped lines, so your browser can do it on its own. Alternatively, you can change the used CSS style in your browser to use the "print" version. E.g. in Firefox click on View->Page Style->No Style, not sure how to do it in Konqueror.
Enrico,
Thanks very much! The end result is fine, and, in fact, I'll have to remember to try a similar trick when I find other web pages that are too wide to read.
I expound / clarify a few things, some for you, and some for anybody else that wants to try the same thing, and then I have one question:
- it turned out that changing doc/geany.css didn't work because
there is a copy of the stylesheet embedded in the manual (geany.html)--it starts at line 20 which says: "@media screen {". I commented out the width specification a few lines below that (with /* */)
Yo, sorry. I forgot to mention that you have to regenerate the .html file after changing the .css file.
- this approach works for reading a local (downloaded) copy of the
manual. One way of downloading it is by using svn to download the entire geany source tree. The manual is then under doc/geany.html.
This approach works very well--the main text wraps to the width of my browser's window, and, if I had a narrow enough window, I might have to horizontally scroll for some wide lines within HTML <pre> </pre> tags. Perfect--just the way it should work ;-)
Question: Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be done for the copy of the manual on the web site?
Not much. I personally just don't like if it is not wrapped because then it looks very ugly and is harder to read on my 22" wide screen. But this is a very personal thing, not really counting. Still not sure if we should change it.
Perhaps this is a potential candidate for CSS3 columns, then. :) That way, everyone would be happy.
PS: I also looked at your suggestion using the "print" version on Firefox (well, Iceweasel on Debian). That works fine, but, loses the
Yup, I'm using Debian and so Iceweasel as well but not everyone knows Iceweasel while it seems all the world knows Firefox :).
- when you go Location -> Print to print a page and do a print
preview, it will wrap to the width of the paper, but you can only view that as a print preview, which is not so friendly--links don't work--it's just an image of a printed page
- under Settings -> Configure Konqueror -> Stylesheets there are
some options that look like they should be helpful, one to use an "Accessibility Stylesheet" with a very limited amount of customization, and the second to use a "user defined stylesheet". I tried both options (I tried to use a downloaded copy of geary.css as the user defined spreadsheet), and neither one seemed to have any effect
No idea, never used Konqueror.
Regards, Enrico
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
Not much. I personally just don't like if it is not wrapped because then it looks very ugly and is harder to read on my 22" wide screen. But this is a very personal thing, not really counting. Still not sure if we should change it.
Perhaps this is a potential candidate for CSS3 columns, then. :) That way, everyone would be happy.
Hi,
:lurkmode off
Just to give a little context here, the Geany manual was originally written in docbook. A while back, I wanted to make some edits but didn't want to work with docbook, and so converted the manual to [reST](http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html). While I was at it, I included some simple CSS to spruce up the look of it -- but note that I'm no web designer. The powers that be accepted the recoded manual and liked the CSS well enough to bring it along for the ride. I don't think it's been changed since then.
My guess is that if some plucky web designer came along and created an updated (or new) css file for the manual, and provided a link to a sample so everyone could have a look, it might stand a chance of replacing the current one. That's just my guess though.
---John
On Sunday 30 August 2009 09:50:51 pm John Gabriele wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:49 PM, I wrote:
[snip] The powers that be accepted the recoded manual and liked the CSS well enough to bring it along for the ride. I don't think it's been changed since then.
The css, I mean.
I think you'd have a decent CSS if the width=60 em line was deleted. ;-)
Randy Kramer
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Sunday 30 August 2009 09:50:51 pm John Gabriele wrote:
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:49 PM, I wrote:
[snip] The powers that be accepted the recoded manual and liked the CSS well enough to bring it along for the ride. I don't think it's been changed since then.
The css, I mean.
I think you'd have a decent CSS if the width=60 em line was deleted. ;-)
I don't, I don't like infinitely long lines that wrap themselves. Fixed size lines where everything is always in the same place is better, My two cents worth :-)
Cheers Lex
Randy Kramer
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Monday 31 August 2009 01:59:24 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
I think you'd have a decent CSS if the width=60 em line was deleted. ;-)
I don't, I don't like infinitely long lines that wrap themselves. Fixed size lines where everything is always in the same place is better, My two cents worth :-)
Lex (and anybody that feels the same way),
How do you feel if those fixed size lines are too wide for your computer screen, and required that you scroll horizontally to read each line? (I suspect you're a younger person with good eyes and use small fonts, but treat this as a hypothetical question, please.)
Randy Kramer
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 01:59:24 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
I think you'd have a decent CSS if the width=60 em line was deleted. ;-)
I don't, I don't like infinitely long lines that wrap themselves. Fixed size lines where everything is always in the same place is better, My two cents worth :-)
Lex (and anybody that feels the same way),
How do you feel if those fixed size lines are too wide for your computer screen, and required that you scroll horizontally to read each line? (I suspect you're a younger person with good eyes and use small fonts, but treat this as a hypothetical question, please.)
Randy Kramer
:-) and how do you feel when each line has three sentences in it as it streaches interminabley across your widescreen...
This is a question to which there is no right answer, or alternatively all answers are right for someone, we each have a valid opinion based on our own preferences. The best the creators of Geany can do is provide some flexibility and hope it suits the majority of people.
Oh, and I'm not sure I quality as a younger person, I was programming computers pre-Unix, thats right pre-Thomson & Ritchie Unix, not pre-Linux.
Cheers Lex
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Monday 31 August 2009 10:11:28 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 01:59:24 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
I think you'd have a decent CSS if the width=60 em line was deleted. ;-)
I don't, I don't like infinitely long lines that wrap themselves. Fixed size lines where everything is always in the same place is better, My two cents worth :-)
Lex (and anybody that feels the same way),
How do you feel if those fixed size lines are too wide for your computer screen, and required that you scroll horizontally to read each line? (I suspect you're a younger person with good eyes and use small fonts, but treat this as a hypothetical question, please.)
Randy Kramer
:-) and how do you feel when each line has three sentences in it as : it
streaches interminabley across your widescreen...
Well, in my browser, except for very rare occurrences when there is presumably something wrong with the HTML, that doesn't happen for me in any of the normal browsers I use. Does it happen for you? In a browser? Which browser(s)?
This is a question to which there is no right answer, or alternatively all answers are right for someone, we each have a valid opinion based on our own preferences. The best the creators of Geany can do is provide some flexibility and hope it suits the majority of people.
Ok, at least until there is a perfect solution. The feature of automatically wrapping to the width of the browser's (or whatever--editor, word processor, is a very common feature)--leaving the user free to adjust the width of the lines (by setting the width of the browser) to suit himself.
In the case where the pre-established width (in this case, 60 em) suits most users, not many people will agitate for a change. (I was thinking about suggesting a survey, but, the above is why I won't.) It seems, though, that having an easily adjustable width would satisfy more users.
And, even for you (although I don't know what software you're using, or how you're using it), you could adjust the width of your browser so that, for you, everything is always in the same place.
Anyway, I'm not really here to agitate the Geany developers (specifically). As a "tilting at windmills" project, I would like to convince all web page builders to avoid specifying a width and letting the browser adjust it to suit the user. Gives me something to do in my copious spare time. ;-)
Oh, and I'm not sure I quality as a younger person, I was programming computers pre-Unix, thats right pre-Thomson & Ritchie Unix, not pre-Linux.
It was just a guess--sorry if I guessed wrong. Hmm, could I guess at your age--I won't, but I'm guessing we're close to the same age--I started programming in 1968. That was pre-C. Without looking it up, I don't know if Unix came before or after C. I started on IBM-360s and Univac 1108s. Oh, wait, there was a smaller IBM that I used before the 360--wow--I'll never remember what that was.
Have a great day!
Randy Kramer
2009/9/1 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 10:11:28 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 01:59:24 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
I think you'd have a decent CSS if the width=60 em line was deleted. ;-)
I don't, I don't like infinitely long lines that wrap themselves. Fixed size lines where everything is always in the same place is better, My two cents worth :-)
Lex (and anybody that feels the same way),
How do you feel if those fixed size lines are too wide for your computer screen, and required that you scroll horizontally to read each line? (I suspect you're a younger person with good eyes and use small fonts, but treat this as a hypothetical question, please.)
Randy Kramer
:-) and how do you feel when each line has three sentences in it as : it
streaches interminabley across your widescreen...
Well, in my browser, except for very rare occurrences when there is presumably something wrong with the HTML, that doesn't happen for me in any of the normal browsers I use. Does it happen for you? In a browser? Which browser(s)?
Firefox or whatever temperature feral animal its called in your distribution :-) and see much of GNU documentation for the effect I complain about.
This is a question to which there is no right answer, or alternatively all answers are right for someone, we each have a valid opinion based on our own preferences. The best the creators of Geany can do is provide some flexibility and hope it suits the majority of people.
Ok, at least until there is a perfect solution. The feature of automatically wrapping to the width of the browser's (or whatever--editor, word processor, is a very common feature)--leaving the user free to adjust the width of the lines (by setting the width of the browser) to suit himself.
This won't work, I can't set the width of each tab individually so my other ones will be too narrow. And less experienced users may not know to re-size their browsers to suit.
Try editing your Geany.html and make the width element max-width and see if we get the perfect solution, I get a fixed maximum width 60em and you get variable wrapping for documents where that won't fit due to large text. (suggestion taken from W3C WCAG 2.0 1.4.8 Visual presentation, how to meet)
It works for me, If it works ok for other browsers you use we'll submit a patch to Geany
In the case where the pre-established width (in this case, 60 em) suits most users, not many people will agitate for a change. (I was thinking about suggesting a survey, but, the above is why I won't.) It seems, though, that having an easily adjustable width would satisfy more users.
Agree, self selecting surveys are rubbish, they are never representative.
And, even for you (although I don't know what software you're using, or how you're using it), you could adjust the width of your browser so that, for you, everything is always in the same place.
Should not be my job to format a manual each time I open it.
Anyway, I'm not really here to agitate the Geany developers (specifically). As a "tilting at windmills" project, I would like to convince all web page builders to avoid specifying a width and letting the browser adjust it to suit the user. Gives me something to do in my copious spare time. ;-)
Oh, and I'm not sure I quality as a younger person, I was programming computers pre-Unix, thats right pre-Thomson & Ritchie Unix, not pre-Linux.
It was just a guess--sorry if I guessed wrong. Hmm, could I guess at your age--I won't, but I'm guessing we're close to the same age--I started programming in 1968. That was pre-C. Without looking it up, I don't know if Unix came before or after C. I started on IBM-360s and Univac 1108s. Oh, wait, there was a smaller IBM that I used before the 360--wow--I'll never remember what that was.
Ummmm you win, (if you call being older a win ;-) I started in early 70s on DEC PDP-10s in Fortran. Re-targettable Unix in C didn't come about until late 70s although I understand assembler versions were used inside AT&T earlier.
Have a great day!
Randy Kramer
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
Lex
Just to let you know I'm not ignoring you, today shapes up to be a busy day--hopefully I can try your suggestion tomorrow. (Or maybe late today.)
Randy Kramer
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 06:31:27 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/9/1 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 10:11:28 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 01:59:24 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/8/31 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
I'm not done with my "busy day", but I'm back at my computer and I needed a break.
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 06:31:27 am Lex Trotman wrote:
2009/9/1 Randy Kramer rhkramer@gmail.com:
On Monday 31 August 2009 10:11:28 am Lex Trotman wrote:
:-) and how do you feel when each line has three sentences in it : as it
streaches interminabley across your widescreen...
Well, in my browser, except for very rare occurrences when there is presumably something wrong with the HTML, that doesn't happen for me in any of the normal browsers I use. Does it happen for you? In a browser? Which browser(s)?
Firefox or whatever temperature feral animal its called in your distribution :-) and see much of GNU documentation for the effect I complain about.
I guess I need a specific example of the GNU documentation you're talking about. I tried the following pages "pseudo-randomly" and they wrap fine for me:
* http://www.gnu.org/software/emms/manual/Introduction.html#Introduction * http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/acct/accounting_6.html * http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.4.1/gfortran/Introduction-to-Intrinsics....
But, it probably doesn't matter--I tried the max-width suggestion (see below) and that seems to work for me.
Try editing your Geany.html and make the width element max-width and see if we get the perfect solution, I get a fixed maximum width 60em and you get variable wrapping for documents where that won't fit due to large text. (suggestion taken from W3C WCAG 2.0 1.4.8 Visual presentation, how to meet)
Interesting, thanks for pointing that out to me--at http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/:
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 W3C Recommendation 11 December 2008 ... 1.4.8 Visual Presentation: For the visual presentation of blocks of text, a mechanism is available to achieve the following: (Level AAA) 1. Foreground and background colors can be selected by the user. 2. Width is no more than 80 characters or glyphs (40 if CJK). 3. Text is not justified (aligned to both the left and the right margins). 4. Line spacing (leading) is at least space-and-a-half within paragraphs, and paragraph spacing is at least 1.5 times larger than the line spacing. 5. Text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 percent in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally to read a line of text on a full-screen window.
It took me a little bit to realize that the suggestion is to change the line: width: 60em;
to: max-width: 60em;
But that does seem to work for me, I wonder if it also works for Enrico (i.e., meets his objective / way of working)?
It works for me, If it works ok for other browsers you use we'll submit a patch to Geany
I'll respond to Enrico's last email on the subject with your suggestion that he try max-width--if that works for the way he works, that might make everybody happy. (Well, OK, surely not everybody...)
Well, actually Enrico will probably see it here ;-)
Randy Kramer
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:57:27 -0400, Randy wrote:
Hey,
Try editing your Geany.html and make the width element max-width and see if we get the perfect solution, I get a fixed maximum width 60em and you get variable wrapping for documents where that won't fit due to large text. (suggestion taken from W3C WCAG 2.0 1.4.8 Visual presentation, how to meet)
Interesting, thanks for pointing that out to me--at http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/:
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 W3C Recommendation 11 December 2008 ... 1.4.8 Visual Presentation: For the visual presentation of blocks of text, a mechanism is available to achieve the following: (Level AAA)
- Foreground and background colors can be selected by the user.
- Width is no more than 80 characters or glyphs (40 if CJK).
- Text is not justified (aligned to both the left and the right
margins). 4. Line spacing (leading) is at least space-and-a-half within paragraphs, and paragraph spacing is at least 1.5 times larger than the line spacing. 5. Text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 percent in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally to read a line of text on a full-screen window.
It took me a little bit to realize that the suggestion is to change the line: width: 60em;
to: max-width: 60em;
But that does seem to work for me, I wonder if it also works for Enrico (i.e., meets his objective / way of working)?
Yeah, it's great. For me nothing changed on a first glance (that's what I wanted :D) but the text automatically wraps when the browser window gets smaller than these 60 em (or the font gets bigger or the half of the screen is cut off or ...:D).
So, yes! I think this is a perfect compromise for most of us (we certainly will never reach the 'all').
If there are no objections, I'll commit this change soonish.
Well, actually Enrico will probably see it here ;-)
He did :).
Regards, Enrico
Lex Trotman escreveu:
:-) and how do you feel when each line has three sentences in it as it streaches interminabley across your widescreen...
This is a question to which there is no right answer, or alternatively all answers are right for someone, we each have a valid opinion based on our own preferences. The best the creators of Geany can do is provide some flexibility and hope it suits the majority of people.
What about a nice trick I found in Codo::Blocks?
it has just a configurable vertical line that can be configurable. Sometimes I use it in cloumn 78 if I want to make something that needs compatibility with 78/80 columns terminals.
Alain
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:03:48 -0300, Alain wrote:
Lex Trotman escreveu:
:-) and how do you feel when each line has three sentences in it as it streaches interminabley across your widescreen...
This is a question to which there is no right answer, or alternatively all answers are right for someone, we each have a valid opinion based on our own preferences. The best the creators of Geany can do is provide some flexibility and hope it suits the majority of people.
What about a nice trick I found in Codo::Blocks?
it has just a configurable vertical line that can be configurable. Sometimes I use it in cloumn 78 if I want to make something that needs compatibility with 78/80 columns terminals.
Geany has such a vertical line, too. You can configure it in the preferences dialog, Editor->Display.
But this somehwat independent from the topic because we are talking about the HTML documentation and I doubt many users read the HTML docs in Geany :).
Regards, Enrico