Hey guys,
I really like a the work you've been doing to make Geany such a great editor! I use it on a daily basis and it makes my work a whole lot easier. Thanks and keep up the good work!
I wanted to contribute to the project somehow, but i can't, due to the lack of C programming skills. I felt bad about it, so i decided to help in another way. With all the noise about the new wiki and stuff i thought that Geany's website also needs a face lift. I'm not a designer, i just make websites work (frontend & backend). But i downloaded a couple of images(free) from the internet and did some coding and here's the result:
It's just a layout, nothing is fully functional. I'm just throwing down ideas and i wanted to get an opinion :)
It's just proposal though... it all depends on Enrico i guess :D
On 04/01/11 13:46, Росен Стоянов wrote:
I'm not a designer, i just make websites work (frontend& backend). But i downloaded a couple of images(free) from the internet and did some coding and here's the result:
I don't see anything.
It's just a layout, nothing is fully functional. I'm just throwing down ideas and i wanted to get an opinion :)
It's just proposal though... it all depends on Enrico i guess :D
Probably attach the image (or better put on the web and link to it) for the people using plain-text email.
Cheers, Matthew Brush
Le 01/04/2011 22:46, Росен Стоянов a écrit :
Hey guys,
I really like a the work you've been doing to make Geany such a great editor! I use it on a daily basis and it makes my work a whole lot easier. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Thanks :)
I wanted to contribute to the project somehow, but i can't, due to the lack of C programming skills. I felt bad about it, so i decided to help in another way.
That's cool, there's plenty of things to do if you don't know what to do with your time :D (improve the documentation, the translations, help users, ...)
With all the noise about the new wiki and stuff i thought that Geany's website also needs a face lift.
I've no opinion on whether the current site's appearance should be changed, but when we'll get the Wiki running we'll definitely need something integrated (moreover if we finally use DokuWiki that have a really bad default appearance).
I'm not a designer, i just make websites work (frontend & backend). But i downloaded a couple of images(free) from the internet and did some coding and here's the result:
It's just a layout, nothing is fully functional. I'm just throwing down ideas and i wanted to get an opinion :)
I think I don't have received something.. an image, or a link?
Cheers, Colomban
This is strange.. the link shows up in the "sent" folder.. Can you see it now: http://geany.pockata.org/GeanyWeb/ ?
On 04/01/11 15:34, Росен Стоянов wrote:
This is strange.. the link shows up in the "sent" folder.. Can you see it now: http://geany.pockata.org/GeanyWeb/ ?
Yes that works. It's very nice!
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Cheers, Matthew Brush
On 2 April 2011 10:04, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/01/11 15:34, Росен Стоянов wrote:
This is strange.. the link shows up in the "sent" folder.. Can you see it now: http://geany.pockata.org/GeanyWeb/ ?
My main comment would be that Geany is a software development tool and most software development capable machines have landscape screens so the portrait layout is wasting a lot of space for the main audience. It might be nice to have portrait for some handhelds that can't turn landscape, but they are not the main target. Even on my tablet I don't do any development, let alone on a smaller screen.
I'd prefer to also have the selections in a sidebar. More of them can be visible and I don't have to go search the menus for them, more usable, especially for those first encountering the site.
Yes that works. It's very nice!
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Actually last comment from Enrico was docuwiki (Had to go look up in trash to be sure:-)
Cheers Lex
Cheers, Matthew Brush _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On 04/01/11 16:20, Lex Trotman wrote:
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Actually last comment from Enrico was docuwiki (Had to go look up in trash to be sure:-)
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
Cheers, Matthew Brush
On 2 April 2011 10:31, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/01/11 16:20, Lex Trotman wrote:
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Actually last comment from Enrico was docuwiki (Had to go look up in trash to be sure:-)
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
So who reads the fine print? :-)
Dunno, last email from Enrico on the thread definitely says DocuWiki over PmWiki
Cheers Lex
Cheers, Matthew Brush _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On 04/01/11 16:38, Lex Trotman wrote:
On 2 April 2011 10:31, Matthew Brushmbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/01/11 16:20, Lex Trotman wrote:
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Actually last comment from Enrico was docuwiki (Had to go look up in trash to be sure:-)
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
So who reads the fine print? :-)
Dunno, last email from Enrico on the thread definitely says DocuWiki over PmWiki
Probably for the (hopefully soon to be) Wiki. I was talking about the main website, which also uses a wiki, for which the redesign is targeted.
I'm guessing whoever administers the main geany.org website will want to continue using the current wiki software, so a redesign should keep that in mind (by writing a "skin" rather than a whole new site).
Cheers, Matthew Brush
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
So who reads the fine print? :-)
On the bottom of the main page...
Dunno, last email from Enrico on the thread definitely says DocuWiki over PmWiki
Probably for the (hopefully soon to be) Wiki. I was talking about the main website, which also uses a wiki, for which the redesign is targeted.
Yes, we were talking about different things, please ignore the noise :-)
Cheers lex
I'm guessing whoever administers the main geany.org website will want to continue using the current wiki software, so a redesign should keep that in mind (by writing a "skin" rather than a whole new site).
Cheers, Matthew Brush _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On 2 April 2011 10:06, Lex Trotman elextr@gmail.com wrote:
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
So who reads the fine print? :-)
On the bottom of the main page...
Dunno, last email from Enrico on the thread definitely says DocuWiki over PmWiki
Probably for the (hopefully soon to be) Wiki. I was talking about the main website, which also uses a wiki, for which the redesign is targeted.
Yes, we were talking about different things, please ignore the noise :-)
Cheers lex
I'm guessing whoever administers the main geany.org website will want to continue using the current wiki software, so a redesign should keep that in mind (by writing a "skin" rather than a whole new site).
Cheers, Matthew Brush
Росен Стоянов,
Thanks for your offer of help. I think your help in tweaking the Geany main site, also the Geany wiki (yet to be born) would be very useful. It's generally not an area that developers are generally good at (no offense intended to coders). People are usually either good at logical thinking, i.e. coding, or creative tasks such as developing nice-looking web sites.
I wonder though, how accessible is the news and info section? Could a screen reader such as Orca actually read these news items? I have no technical problem with the slideshow-style effect but generally prefer static items.
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:46:07 +1000, Russell wrote:
It's generally not an area that developers are generally good at (no offense intended to coders). People are usually either good at logical thinking, i.e. coding, or creative tasks such as developing nice-looking web sites.
For me personally, this is soooo true :).
Regards, Enrico
2011/4/2 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:46:07 +1000, Russell wrote:
It's generally not an area that developers are generally good at (no offense intended to coders). People are usually either good at logical thinking, i.e. coding, or creative tasks such as developing nice-looking web sites.
For me personally, this is soooo true :).
I beg to disagree. :) The designs of your applications are uniformly impeccable.
Cheers Liviu
Regards, Enrico
-- Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.asc
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:42:22 -0700, Matthew wrote:
On 04/01/11 16:38, Lex Trotman wrote:
On 2 April 2011 10:31, Matthew Brushmbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/01/11 16:20, Lex Trotman wrote:
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Actually last comment from Enrico was docuwiki (Had to go look up in trash to be sure:-)
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
So who reads the fine print? :-)
Dunno, last email from Enrico on the thread definitely says DocuWiki over PmWiki
Probably for the (hopefully soon to be) Wiki. I was talking about the main website, which also uses a wiki, for which the redesign is targeted.
I'm guessing whoever administers the main geany.org website will want
Nick, Frank and /me.
to continue using the current wiki software, so a redesign should keep that in mind (by writing a "skin" rather than a whole new site).
It depends. I personally could also think of a set of PHP scripts + HTML files checked out from SVN as base of the website with most dokumentation content moved into the new (yet to born, yeah) wiki. Though I'd also be totally fine with using just a new skin for the PMwiki instance we are using.
Keeping PMWiki also would prevent us from problems of broken external links deep-linking into www.geany.org.
Regards, Enrico
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:03:31 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Keeping PMWiki also would prevent us from problems of broken external links deep-linking into www.geany.org.
This could be solved in case of by adding some rewrite rules to lighty's config.
Cheers, Frank
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 01:58:29 +0200, Frank wrote:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:03:31 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Keeping PMWiki also would prevent us from problems of broken external links deep-linking into www.geany.org.
This could be solved in case of by adding some rewrite rules to lighty's config.
But would be a mess for each page of the current site...
Regards, Enrico
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 13:19:47 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 01:58:29 +0200, Frank wrote:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:03:31 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Keeping PMWiki also would prevent us from problems of broken external links deep-linking into www.geany.org.
This could be solved in case of by adding some rewrite rules to lighty's config.
But would be a mess for each page of the current site...
Unfortunately you are true: Its not done with a one liner and would need some effort. ;)
Cheers, Frank
Sorry for the downtime, i had guests sleeping in the room with the web server (LOL) and i had to shut it down.. :D
So Lex, i guess there wont be any settlement on the argument so i suppose we should drop it :)
I've updated the layout with the sidebar menu.. It's a bit long. I can make it with the popups like the horizontal version if necessary.
On the pink selection color, i'll remove it soon. it's just a trend at the moment. Everybody's using it :D :D
I've made the gallery script on the bottom (click on the thumbnail).
Cheers, Pockata
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 19:22:01 +0300 Росен Стоянов f1r3fl3x@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for the downtime, i had guests sleeping in the room with the web server (LOL) and i had to shut it down.. :D
OK ;)
I just had a look and I'm afraid I have to say I dislike the comic like stile of the page.
The general structure seems to be fine on a first view.
Cheers, Frank (not this much productive feedback but just what I think)
2011/4/4 Росен Стоянов f1r3fl3x@gmail.com:
Sorry for the downtime, i had guests sleeping in the room with the web server (LOL) and i had to shut it down.. :D
So Lex, i guess there wont be any settlement on the argument so i suppose we should drop it :)
Ok, if you won't code a variable size one I guess its up to the community to decide if what you offer is worth the upgrade from the existing site. But that doesn't let you off the other issues I addressed :-)
I've updated the layout with the sidebar menu.. It's a bit long. I can make it with the popups like the horizontal version if necessary.
Yes, suggest downloads and documentation could expand, as you said previously their content is obvious.
Suggest a top level addons that contains plugins and extras so they are easier to find, then support could be popup as well, and add wiki to support. And support fonts are different.
On the pink selection color, i'll remove it soon. it's just a trend at the moment. Everybody's using it :D :D
Thats the least of its problems, see attached screenshot, on Firefox 3.6.16 its badly broken so I can't really comment further.
Cheers Lex
PS Screenshot is blurry because I reduced the resolution to shrink the file
On 04/03/11 09:22, Росен Стоянов wrote:
I've updated the layout with the sidebar menu.. It's a bit long. I can make it with the popups like the horizontal version if necessary.
I liked the original top menu layout personally, with all the items nested in subitems. I guess everyone has their opinion on such things :)
On the pink selection color, i'll remove it soon. it's just a trend at the moment. Everybody's using it :D :D
The yellow/gold is too light on the light gray IMO, maybe darker color or use a darker shadow?
I've made the gallery script on the bottom (click on the thumbnail).
That looks really nice how it pops up like that. Good work.
Cheers, Matthew Brush
Thanks Matthew :)
Lex, you're absolutely right. The designer with which i usually work is a lazy a** and a bit of a control freak. But he isn't helping me with this project. It's all me (now you understand why it's so terrible..).
About the "broken" design, It seems that you have a cached version of the css file. When you hit ctrl+F5 (clears the cache) and everything will be ok i guess.
About the em, i always use ems for the text size.. Here's an attachment with FF and IE on Windows at 1024x768
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Росен Стоянов wrote:
Thanks Matthew :)
Lex, you're absolutely right. The designer with which i usually work is a lazy a** and a bit of a control freak. But he isn't helping me with this project. It's all me (now you understand why it's so terrible..).
About the "broken" design, It seems that you have a cached version of the css file. When you hit ctrl+F5 (clears the cache) and everything will be ok i guess.
About the em, i always use ems for the text size.. Here's an attachment with FF and IE on Windows at 1024x768
Personally, I like your vision of the new and improved Geany site. Nice job!
2011/4/4 Росен Стоянов f1r3fl3x@gmail.com:
Thanks Matthew :)
Lex, you're absolutely right. The designer with which i usually work is a lazy a** and a bit of a control freak. But he isn't helping me with this
I won't tell you said that :)
project. It's all me (now you understand why it's so terrible..).
I didn't say terrible, I just disagree about some basic fundamentals.
About the "broken" design, It seems that you have a cached version of the css file. When you hit ctrl+F5 (clears the cache) and everything will be ok i guess.
my bad
About the em, i always use ems for the text size..
But the font size is fixed, which is no good. To give you an idea, note in my screen shot how much extra space there is on each side compared to yours, now think how small that makes the text. I currently use 18 point as default, but you probably wouldn't want that on your screen.
And I would like to ditch the grey background, its kinda depressing really. There is a reason why Apple sells millions of white appliances white looks cleaner and makes people feel better. If not white then a very light colour or shading.
Also the menu has too much space making it too long, but lets see after Wednesday, I think thats when you said you would be able to make some of them popup/pullout whatever you want to call them.
Cheers Lex
On 04/04/11 06:55, Lex Trotman wrote:
But the font size is fixed, which is no good. To give you an idea, note in my screen shot how much extra space there is on each side compared to yours, now think how small that makes the text. I currently use 18 point as default, but you probably wouldn't want that on your screen.
Press Ctrl and + to zoom in :)
I have a big monitor as well, and I've noticed many of the nice professional sites don't scale or change the font size when the browser is resized. Some of the nice ones I've noticed lately:
http://www.ubuntu.com/ http://gitorious.org/ http://ground-control.org/ http://store.apple.com/ca/ http://www.libreoffice.org/
I usually use only half of my monitor for the browser, which works well with this style of fixed-width, centered websites that seems to be all the rage.
Note also that all those examples are using the same general style of "across the top" menus. I think a lot of people look there by default nowadays for the main site navigation.
My $0.02 CAD.
Cheers, Matthew Brush
On 5 April 2011 00:34, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/04/11 06:55, Lex Trotman wrote:
But the font size is fixed, which is no good. To give you an idea, note in my screen shot how much extra space there is on each side compared to yours, now think how small that makes the text. I currently use 18 point as default, but you probably wouldn't want that on your screen.
Press Ctrl and + to zoom in :)
Why should we have to do this?? Plus when you zoom most pages (in your list) show artifacts and/or font rendering problems.
I have a big monitor as well, and I've noticed many of the nice professional sites don't scale or change the font size when the browser is resized.
Sadly this just proves my contention about web designers ;-)
Perhaps I'm being too harsh, they are taught at design school to do things on a piece of paper and I understand that they consequently have trouble getting their heads around things that vary. By calling them lazy I really mean that fixed size is much easier to design.
Some
of the nice ones I've noticed lately:
Nah, doesn't do it for me, all advertising no content & text too small, if I didn't know anything about Ubuntu it wouldn't sell me on it.
An ingenious background that makes it look less like it is fixed size, and the multi column text layout is good, but again some of the fonts are too small
As above but not quite so nicely designed
Shows that you can have sidebar navigation :)
This one is an interesting one, even though it has two column text all the text follows the default size, it isn't fixed, & I like the background gradient. The overall look is clean. Maybe we could do something similar with one column for news the other for description/features/info?
I usually use only half of my monitor for the browser, which works well with this style of fixed-width, centered websites that seems to be all the rage.
1. NEVER confuse common with good, Microsoft anyone? :)
2. I have 12 tabs open, 8 of which are using full width. The only ones that don't look too good are the GTK reference ones. Of the fixed size ones, two are manuals, (all text so of course they are fixed width), one is news (lots of pictures, another of the reasons I gave for fixed size) and that leaves one other fixed size. So I am not going to re-size the browser for one website.
Note also that all those examples are using the same general style of "across the top" menus. I think a lot of people look there by default nowadays for the main site navigation.
None of them have menus across the top, they all have 4-6 links across the top, which all go to other pages so you have to go to other pages to look for things. I think 4-6 is too few for what we have to cover. Hence I advocate a sidebar which fits more.
But maybe we can use the method that http://www.linuxmint.com/ uses where, as you mouse over the top categories the next line shows the subcategories, that way you can find what you are looking for without having to go to other pages to search for it. Anyway its something to try as an alternative. It could probably re-use most of the menu code Pockata has already, just make the menu horizontal on the next line.
My $0.02 CAD.
Raise you $0.02 AUD its worth $0.0015 more as of writing this.
Cheers Lex
+1
Randy Kramer
(No comments added below this line.)
On Monday 04 April 2011 12:21:37 pm Lex Trotman wrote:
On 5 April 2011 00:34, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/04/11 06:55, Lex Trotman wrote:
But the font size is fixed, which is no good. To give you an idea, note in my screen shot how much extra space there is on each side compared to yours, now think how small that makes the text. I currently use 18 point as default, but you probably wouldn't want that on your screen.
Press Ctrl and + to zoom in :)
Why should we have to do this?? Plus when you zoom most pages (in your list) show artifacts and/or font rendering problems.
I have a big monitor as well, and I've noticed many of the nice professional sites don't scale or change the font size when the browser is resized.
Sadly this just proves my contention about web designers ;-)
Perhaps I'm being too harsh, they are taught at design school to do things on a piece of paper and I understand that they consequently have trouble getting their heads around things that vary. By calling them lazy I really mean that fixed size is much easier to design.
Some
of the nice ones I've noticed lately:
Nah, doesn't do it for me, all advertising no content & text too small, if I didn't know anything about Ubuntu it wouldn't sell me on it.
An ingenious background that makes it look less like it is fixed size, and the multi column text layout is good, but again some of the fonts are too small
As above but not quite so nicely designed
Shows that you can have sidebar navigation :)
This one is an interesting one, even though it has two column text all the text follows the default size, it isn't fixed, & I like the background gradient. The overall look is clean. Maybe we could do something similar with one column for news the other for description/features/info?
I usually use only half of my monitor for the browser, which works well with this style of fixed-width, centered websites that seems to be all the rage.
NEVER confuse common with good, Microsoft anyone? :)
I have 12 tabs open, 8 of which are using full width. The only
ones that don't look too good are the GTK reference ones. Of the fixed size ones, two are manuals, (all text so of course they are fixed width), one is news (lots of pictures, another of the reasons I gave for fixed size) and that leaves one other fixed size. So I am not going to re-size the browser for one website.
Note also that all those examples are using the same general style of "across the top" menus. I think a lot of people look there by default nowadays for the main site navigation.
None of them have menus across the top, they all have 4-6 links across the top, which all go to other pages so you have to go to other pages to look for things. I think 4-6 is too few for what we have to cover. Hence I advocate a sidebar which fits more.
But maybe we can use the method that http://www.linuxmint.com/ uses where, as you mouse over the top categories the next line shows the subcategories, that way you can find what you are looking for without having to go to other pages to search for it. Anyway its something to try as an alternative. It could probably re-use most of the menu code Pockata has already, just make the menu horizontal on the next line.
On 5 April 2011 02:21, Lex Trotman elextr@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 April 2011 00:34, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/04/11 06:55, Lex Trotman wrote:
But the font size is fixed, which is no good. To give you an idea, note in my screen shot how much extra space there is on each side compared to yours, now think how small that makes the text. I currently use 18 point as default, but you probably wouldn't want that on your screen.
Press Ctrl and + to zoom in :)
Why should we have to do this?? Plus when you zoom most pages (in your list) show artifacts and/or font rendering problems.
I have a big monitor as well, and I've noticed many of the nice professional sites don't scale or change the font size when the browser is resized.
Sadly this just proves my contention about web designers ;-)
Perhaps I'm being too harsh, they are taught at design school to do things on a piece of paper and I understand that they consequently have trouble getting their heads around things that vary. By calling them lazy I really mean that fixed size is much easier to design.
Some
of the nice ones I've noticed lately:
Nah, doesn't do it for me, all advertising no content & text too small, if I didn't know anything about Ubuntu it wouldn't sell me on it.
An ingenious background that makes it look less like it is fixed size, and the multi column text layout is good, but again some of the fonts are too small
As above but not quite so nicely designed
Shows that you can have sidebar navigation :)
This one is an interesting one, even though it has two column text all the text follows the default size, it isn't fixed, & I like the background gradient. The overall look is clean. Maybe we could do something similar with one column for news the other for description/features/info?
I usually use only half of my monitor for the browser, which works well with this style of fixed-width, centered websites that seems to be all the rage.
NEVER confuse common with good, Microsoft anyone? :)
I have 12 tabs open, 8 of which are using full width. The only
ones that don't look too good are the GTK reference ones. Of the fixed size ones, two are manuals, (all text so of course they are fixed width), one is news (lots of pictures, another of the reasons I gave for fixed size) and that leaves one other fixed size. So I am not going to re-size the browser for one website.
Note also that all those examples are using the same general style of "across the top" menus. I think a lot of people look there by default nowadays for the main site navigation.
None of them have menus across the top, they all have 4-6 links across the top, which all go to other pages so you have to go to other pages to look for things. I think 4-6 is too few for what we have to cover. Hence I advocate a sidebar which fits more.
But maybe we can use the method that http://www.linuxmint.com/ uses where, as you mouse over the top categories the next line shows the subcategories, that way you can find what you are looking for without having to go to other pages to search for it. Anyway its something to try as an alternative. It could probably re-use most of the menu code Pockata has already, just make the menu horizontal on the next line.
My $0.02 CAD.
Raise you $0.02 AUD its worth $0.0015 more as of writing this.
Cheers Lex _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
Just a few comments in reply to points raised by Lex et al:
* I agree that the background colour should be a light shade, not dark as it is in the mock-ups; * I also like the design of the LibreOffice site; * I like the general idea of the Linux Mint web site's menu but in practice when you hover over a sub-menu item, it's then not obvious which main menu item you are viewing; * If it's possible I agree that a fluid/dynamic layout is definitely preferred to a fixed layout.
Just a few comments in reply to points raised by Lex et al:
- I agree that the background colour should be a light shade, not dark
as it is in the mock-ups;
- I also like the design of the LibreOffice site;
- I like the general idea of the Linux Mint web site's menu but in
practice when you hover over a sub-menu item, it's then not obvious which main menu item you are viewing;
True, needs a pointer to the current main menu item ( see top menu abc.net.au as an example)
Cheers Lex
- If it's possible I agree that a fluid/dynamic layout is definitely
preferred to a fixed layout.
-- Russell Dickenson _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2011 o 18:21:37 Lex Trotman napisał(a):
But maybe we can use the method that http://www.linuxmint.com/ uses
Try to get at it without a pointing device :-(
Chris
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 02:21:37 +1000 Lex Trotman elextr@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 April 2011 00:34, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/04/11 06:55, Lex Trotman wrote:
But the font size is fixed, which is no good. To give you an idea, note in my screen shot how much extra space there is on each side compared to yours, now think how small that makes the text. I currently use 18 point as default, but you probably wouldn't want that on your screen.
Press Ctrl and + to zoom in :)
Why should we have to do this?? Plus when you zoom most pages (in your list) show artifacts and/or font rendering problems.
Unfortunately I have to do this daily and I'd like to give pain to webdesigner who don't care about.
Cheers, Frank
Oh, really sorry about the delay guys. I'm having a busy week at work... I'm going to make some changes in the design this at the end of the week!
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:38:16 +1100, Lex wrote:
On 2 April 2011 10:31, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/01/11 16:20, Lex Trotman wrote:
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Actually last comment from Enrico was docuwiki (Had to go look up in trash to be sure:-)
I just guessed based on the "Powered by PmWiki running the "Light" skin." on the bottom of geany.org.
So who reads the fine print? :-)
Dunno, last email from Enrico on the thread definitely says DocuWiki over PmWiki
It wasn't meant as a final decision. Just wanting to collect possible solutions.
And as you both noticed already, dokuwiki or pmwiki or something else is just the question for the new wiki, I never talked about the main website. I think we could keep it running at PMWiki (I said more on this later in the thread).
Regards, Enrico
Lex, i would also disagree with you. Sidebars(that hold the main menu) are a thing of the past. A good design always uses a width of around 900px (if it is desired to leave space on the sides). A very large portion of the users (based on worldwide surveys) use 1024x768 or similar resolutions, even on 22'' monitors... (!?!?) So a sidebar would only take precious space.. considering that you have to leave space between the menu and the content and make the font small so that the labels don't make it too wide. Take a look at jEdit's website (jedit.org) when i opened it at fullscreen i stood speechless. The text stretches and thus making it somewhat hard to read. I will make this version of the layout, but it's considered as a bad practice for several years now.. Trust me i sit all day reading about user experience and front end development.
As I said above, newbies will if they can't find what they want. If I
can't find the documentation for a new tool quickly on its website I won't even bother to download it, too much of a waste of time, go somewhere else
Ok, i will make the Documentation button blink :D Now seriously, I think that the menu is nicely divided into categories and easy to work your way through. If a user, no matter experienced or not, goes to the website and wants to search for a plugin for Geany, he would go to the Downloads menu and click Third party packages (i think plugins is better!). I seriously doubt that he will go around the Documentation and Contribute menus :)
The thing that i think needs change is separating the info and news and adding the screenshots to the info. I have a cool idea about the screenshots. I will make the changes on Wednesday :)
Cheers, Pockata
Hey Росен,
Le 03/04/2011 00:17, Росен Стоянов a écrit :
[...] Take a look at jEdit's website (jedit.org http://jedit.org) when i opened it at fullscreen i stood speechless. The text stretches and thus making it somewhat hard to read. I will make this version of the layout, but it's considered as a bad practice for several years now.. Trust me i sit all day reading about user experience and front end development.
I think that this is not a valid argument against non-fixed-width layouts. If the user can't read easily with hes browser in fullscreen, the user only have to resize his browser's window. I don't see any reason why force the user not to do what he wants -- apart that OK, developing fixed-width layouts is generally a little easier.
Apart from this, I feel quite good with your design example, but some remarks:
1) The slide is white on black, but the rest of the site black on white. IMHO it looks like "a big rectangle on the middle", it'd be better be also black on white.
2) I don't like the slider as it is used here. For me, such sliders are quite beautiful and looks "modern" and "technical", but they are not easy to use from a browsing POV. IMHO they are good at showing things a bit useless, such as prominent features and stuff like that, but not news. For example I think Ubuntu's website makes a good use of it (http://www.ubuntu.com), but not your example. I'd prefer the news to be in a traditional top-to-bottom layout, or maybe only show the latest one in the main page (or maybe show some selection of the latest, or the latest in some categories, etc.).
3) I don't like the pink selection, sorry :D
4) We better have also a nice look without JavaScript enabled, even with less fancy, and I don't thinks e.g. the slider really looks cool without JS (though it's yet usable, proves it's well done :))
5) I don't like the shadow under the main title
6) not sure the blue is the best for the link color, perhaps a color from the Geany logo would be better? (e.g. yellow, or dark red if the yellow doesn't fit)
Otherwise, I think it's great, and is probably catchier than the current design. We want to catch people§ :D
Cheers, Colomban
On 04/02/11 15:47, Colomban Wendling wrote:
- The slide is white on black, but the rest of the site black on white.
IMHO it looks like "a big rectangle on the middle", it'd be better be also black on white.
If the slideshow was in a light color and filled the whole area it's contained in, would look better, IMO.
- We better have also a nice look without JavaScript enabled, even with
less fancy, and I don't thinks e.g. the slider really looks cool without JS (though it's yet usable, proves it's well done :))
And it's not Flash!
- I don't like the shadow under the main title
I can't access the demo anymore, but maybe a darker shadow centered on the text would look better than the offset to bottom right, IIRC.
Otherwise, I think it's great, and is probably catchier than the current design. We want to catch people§ :D
Definitively catchier than the current site. But in all fairness, geany.org is still currently *much* nicer than 90% of FOSS project sites :)
Cheers, Matthew Brush
Hi,
Maybe we should have agreed on some easy problems first like religion, politics, C coding standards before we tried web design :-)
Anyway, First of all the thing that hasn't been mentioned, "What is this website for?"
My answer is, to provide information and resources to existing and potential Geany users.
That means that the main page is going to be mainly navigation and snippets of information that direct to pages with detailed info.
It isn't advertising in the traditional sense, but it should be professional, attractive, informative and usable for all users so that it encourages new users to try Geany and encourages new contributors from existing users.
2011/4/3 Росен Стоянов f1r3fl3x@gmail.com:
Lex, i would also disagree with you. Sidebars(that hold the main menu) are a thing of the past. A good design always uses a width of around 900px (if it
There are only three reasons for having a fixed width web page:
1. most content is fixed size, eg images, videos. Not the case for the Geany website.
2. most content is contiguous words to be read. In that case the *text column* size should be in ems (max 40) not in pixels. Better still is automatic changes in the number of columns to keep each text column well under 40ems (but that might be a bit complex). Some of the Geany pages will be of this type (Manual, hacking etc.) but not the front page.
3. your web designer is lazy and/or a control freak (I can be blunt since you said you are not a web designer, and any web designers reading the Geany devel list are obviously superior and would not be in either of these categories :-)
Why should a user with a widescreen waste a huge strip either side and someone not running the browser fullscreen have to scroll to read each line?
is desired to leave space on the sides). A very large portion of the users (based on worldwide surveys) use 1024x768 or similar resolutions, even on 22'' monitors... (!?!?) So a sidebar would only take precious space.. considering that you have to leave space between the menu and the content and make the font small so that
You shouldn't use fixed fonts either, you don't know what the resolution of my monitor is or how good my eyesight is. All text should use my chosen size as the base case and relative sizes for headings etc. Yes that makes design harder, you have to use ems and percentages as measurements, but see point 3 above.
the labels don't make it too wide. Take a look at jEdit's website (jedit.org) when i opened it at fullscreen i stood speechless. The text stretches and thus making it somewhat hard to read. I will make this version of the layout, but it's considered as a bad practice for several years now..
Using a bad example of a design paradigm does not invalidate the paradigm, there are plenty of examples of bad fixed size design too.
Trust me i sit all day reading about user experience and front end development.
Poor you :-)
As I said above, newbies will if they can't find what they want. If I can't find the documentation for a new tool quickly on its website I won't even bother to download it, too much of a waste of time, go somewhere else
Ok, i will make the Documentation button blink :D
Do that and I'll DDOS your server :-D
Now seriously, I think that the menu is nicely divided into categories and easy to work your way through.
Good that will be a nice prototype for the sidebar :-)
As someone else mentioned, the link seems offline, and I can't remember details of the menu layout so I won't comment.
If a user, no matter experienced or not, goes to the website and wants to search for a plugin for Geany, he would go to the Downloads menu and click Third party packages (i think plugins is better!). I seriously doubt that he
Agree with plugins, lets keep consistent terminology.
will go around the Documentation and Contribute menus :)
The thing that i think needs change is separating the info and news and adding the screenshots to the info. I have a cool idea about the screenshots. I will make the changes on Wednesday :)
I'm not sure lots of screenshots are a good idea, Geany is configurable and a look that you like, someone else may hate, eg the dark theme, very 1970s (yes I was programming then) but some people love it.
The slider is a nice idea although as I remember it kind of dominates the page, but maybe that would improve with more content.
But I wonder do we have enough suitable material to put in it? Whatever is in it must be important enough to want to shout at users, but unimportant enough that it doesn't matter if they miss it because they don't slide the slider. Not sure what goes in that category, and its a bit naf to just repeat what is immediately below it in the news and information sections.
Cheers Lex
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 04/01/11 15:34, Росен Стоянов wrote:
This is strange.. the link shows up in the "sent" folder.. Can you see it now: http://geany.pockata.org/GeanyWeb/ ?
Yes that works. It's very nice!
Yes, much better than the current site, in which is a bit dififcult to find your way. Regards Liviu
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think), would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Cheers, Matthew Brush _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
Thanks :) This is the first design that i make on my own (without a graphic designer), so don't expect much :D + i made it in about 20-25 minutes :)
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think),
would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Matthew Brush, an eventual integration with the main site and/or wiki is the main purpose of this :) The current site is served by PmWiki, but as the thread about the wiki software goes towards DokuWiki, i guess it would be logical to also switch the main site to DokuWiki.
I wonder though, how accessible is the news and info section? Could a
screen reader such as Orca actually read these news items? I have no technical problem with the slideshow-style effect but generally prefer static items.
Russel Dickenson, The source code is almost the same. The difference is only visual
My main comment would be that Geany is a software development tool and
most software development capable machines have landscape screens so the portrait layout is wasting a lot of space for the main audience. It might be nice to have portrait for some handhelds that can't turn landscape, but they are not the main target. Even on my tablet I don't do any development, let alone on a smaller screen.
I'd prefer to also have the selections in a sidebar. More of them can be visible and I don't have to go search the menus for them, more usable, especially for those first encountering the site.
Lex Trotman, sorry but i didn't quite understand the first part of your comment. You want the site to be wider? If that's the case i would disagree on a number of reasons. Some of them are that not EVERY developer has a widescreen monitor. And i have seen many that do and still use a resolution of about 1200px wide(!?). A width of 900-960px of part of the "best practices" in UX for websites. Also a wider site looks kind of ugly and hard to navigate.
About the menu in the sidebar, it looks really chaotic. That's why i moved it to the top of the site. It's not so bad that the links are not directly accessible. This isn't some dynamic everyday website like twitter or facebook. Nobody's in a hurry, Geany isn't going anywhere :D But i will have some spare time in a couple of days and i will make another version of the layout with a menu column on the left :)
If there are any other suggestions, recommendations or complaints of any sort please let me know :)
Cheers, Pockata
Lex Trotman, sorry but i didn't quite understand the first part of your comment. You want the site to be wider? If that's the case i would disagree on a number of reasons. Some of them are that not EVERY developer has a widescreen monitor. And i have seen many that do and still use a resolution of about 1200px wide(!?). A width of 900-960px of part of the "best practices" in UX for websites. Also a wider site looks kind of ugly and hard to navigate.
I guess I wasn't clear enough, why make it fixed width at all? The point of HTML is that it can be reflowed to suit the users monitor, by having a fixed width it wastes more than half of a modern monitor and still won't fit on really small ones.
Web sites should not be done by pixels, they are not screen applications.
About the menu in the sidebar, it looks really chaotic.
I wasn't supporting the current layout of the sidebar :-) just the principle that sidebars make more of the site visible. Sure experienced users will know where to look for things, but new users shouldn't have to poke around menus to find things. Its a real turnoff if you can't find something on a site quickly ... oh damn its too hard lets go try another IDE :-( Again its a web page, not a GUI app.
Thats not to say that everything and the kitchen sink should be in the sidebar, making it too cluttered is bad too. Isn't web design fun :-) ... not.
That's why i moved
it to the top of the site. It's not so bad that the links are not directly accessible.
That I disagree with, see above.
This isn't some dynamic everyday website like twitter or
facebook. Nobody's in a hurry, Geany isn't going anywhere :D
As I said above, newbies will if they can't find what they want. If I can't find the documentation for a new tool quickly on its website I won't even bother to download it, too much of a waste of time, go somewhere else.
But i will have some spare time in a couple of days and i will make another version of the layout with a menu column on the left :)
Ok, lets see how it goes. I'd suggest some examples but most websites these days just make me cranky, must be getting old.
And thanks for the effort, I'm definitely not criticising you for the contribution.
Cheers Lex
If there are any other suggestions, recommendations or complaints of any sort please let me know :)
Cheers, Pockata
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:32:44 +0300, Росен wrote:
Thanks :) This is the first design that i make on my own (without a graphic designer), so don't expect much :D
- i made it in about 20-25 minutes :)
I do like it in general though I think Lex' remarks are worth to be looked at. Also the question of accessibility.
Geany is using PmWiki for the website (I think),
would/could this integrate with that wiki (using templates or something)?
Matthew Brush, an eventual integration with the main site and/or wiki is the main purpose of this :) The current site is served by PmWiki, but as the thread about the wiki software goes towards DokuWiki, i guess it would be logical to also switch the main site to DokuWiki.
I don't think so. I hadn't planned to change the main Geany website to Dokuwiki or anything else.
Though when we got the separate wiki, we could even think about replacing the wiki on the main Geany website by something simpler, maybe more or less static HTML sites with some PHP driven by SVN. But this isn't really all the matter.
Pockata, your new design looks great so far.
Btw, if you guys are interested in the last discussion about website theme changes, read http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.general/568 :).
Regards, Enrico
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 01:34:24 +0300 Росен Стоянов f1r3fl3x@gmail.com wrote:
This is strange.. the link shows up in the "sent" folder.. Can you see it now: http://geany.pockata.org/GeanyWeb/ ?
Unfortunately it appears to be down at the moment. Any mirror available for?
Cheers, Frank
