Unlike *nix, there is no GCC in PATH even MinGW is installed. Configuring PATH manually can be challenging for noob.
So, I wonder, can Geany people publish Windoze releases bundled with MinGW? Or, can I add path to Geany Portable that is relative to `pwd` rather than @Drive
Thank you in advance!
I forgot to include the need of typical Windoze noob:
One-shot installation No extra configuration before "hello, world" No need to create annoying projects (So I choose Geany, rather than Code::Blocks or Eclipse)
Hi,
The provision of a complete windows programming tool set isn't really in the Geany mission statement.
It would add to the windows build complexities and it would be entirely up to the person who supports windows builds to decide if they have enough time to create and support this extension.
Cheers Lex
On 9 August 2012 17:04, Ma Xiaojun damage3025@gmail.com wrote:
I forgot to include the need of typical Windoze noob:
One-shot installation No extra configuration before "hello, world" No need to create annoying projects (So I choose Geany, rather than Code::Blocks or Eclipse) _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On 12-08-09 12:01 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
Unlike *nix, there is no GCC in PATH even MinGW is installed. Configuring PATH manually can be challenging for noob.
So, I wonder, can Geany people publish Windoze releases bundled with MinGW? Or, can I add path to Geany Portable that is relative to `pwd` rather than @Drive
Not sure about bundling since Geany tends to stay away from extra dependencies and complexity. One possibility would be either in the manual or more fittingly perhaps on the wiki to include instructions for downloading the Mingw binaries, adding them to PATH and compiling a "Hello world" program with them.
Cheers, Matthew Brush
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
Not sure about bundling since Geany tends to stay away from extra dependencies and complexity.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Geany's default build configuration for C/C++ is to call GCC. So it's natural to provide a MinGW bundled option I guess.
One possibility would be either in the manual or more fittingly perhaps on the wiki to include instructions for downloading the Mingw binaries, adding them to PATH and compiling a "Hello world" program with them.
Yes. I‘ve already created a page. https://wiki.geany.org/tag/win32/getting-started Feel free to correct my Chinese-influenced English or add more details (There is no Windows box nearby and I'm using wine).
Why is it so inconvient to use the @Drive trick? If you check out the windows paths, they're all specified starting with a drive letter. Linux paths start with root . . .
For this to work, I (or someone else picking up Geany Portable) would have to distribute MinGW with Geany Portable. And I haven't been able to get MinGW to work even installed as a regular system application for quite some time.
In my experience compiling something with MinGW on windows rarely ends well, if it ends at all!
On 8/9/2012 2:01 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
Unlike *nix, there is no GCC in PATH even MinGW is installed. Configuring PATH manually can be challenging for noob.
So, I wonder, can Geany people publish Windoze releases bundled with MinGW? Or, can I add path to Geany Portable that is relative to `pwd` rather than @Drive
Thank you in advance! _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Oliver Krystal mr.soup12@gmail.com wrote:
Why is it so inconvient to use the @Drive trick? If you check out the windows paths, they're all specified starting with a drive letter. Linux paths start with root . . .
Well, @Drive trick works perfectly if we put Geany and MinGW in a USB drive and keep their path static. What I want is a folder/archive that can be used in an arbitrary path of Windoze, i.e., a relocatable portable app. Such app is much easier for redistribution.
For this to work, I (or someone else picking up Geany Portable) would have to distribute MinGW with Geany Portable. And I haven't been able to get MinGW to work even installed as a regular system application for quite some time. In my experience compiling something with MinGW on windows rarely ends well, if it ends at all!
It sounds like you are unhappy with MinGW. What's the exact problem you met?
On 8/9/2012 8:41 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Oliver Krystal mr.soup12@gmail.com wrote:
Why is it so inconvient to use the @Drive trick? If you check out the windows paths, they're all specified starting with a drive letter. Linux paths start with root . . .
Well, @Drive trick works perfectly if we put Geany and MinGW in a USB drive and keep their path static. What I want is a folder/archive that can be used in an arbitrary path of Windoze, i.e., a relocatable portable app. Such app is much easier for redistribution.
In general, that's a behavior that isn't supported. It would also make the fixing of configuration files and such break pretty quickly .
Geany Portable is up on github, https://github.com/oliverkrystal/geanyportable if you'd like to take a look at relevant source files they are in Other\Source and written in NSIS. Fork it, fix it, submit a pull request and if I like it I'll use it.
For this to work, I (or someone else picking up Geany Portable) would have to distribute MinGW with Geany Portable. And I haven't been able to get MinGW to work even installed as a regular system application for quite some time. In my experience compiling something with MinGW on windows rarely ends well, if it ends at all!
It sounds like you are unhappy with MinGW. What's the exact problem you met?
It helps to be able to get a functioning install :)
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Oliver Krystal mr.soup12@gmail.com wrote:
On 8/9/2012 8:41 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
It sounds like you are unhappy with MinGW. What's the exact problem you met?
It helps to be able to get a functioning install :)
Have you tried TDM-GCC?
It's basically a better-packaged MinGW bundle. In my (limited) experience, this has been easier to install and work with than the official MinGW.
John
Am 09.08.2012 09:01, schrieb Ma Xiaojun:
Unlike *nix, there is no GCC in PATH even MinGW is installed. Configuring PATH manually can be challenging for noob.
So, I wonder, can Geany people publish Windoze releases bundled with MinGW? Or, can I add path to Geany Portable that is relative to `pwd` rather than @Drive
I think you already got a lot of answers but I also want to add my 2ct. Even I understand your idea, I don't think Geany itself should ship any C compiler -- or any other -- with it. BUT: I can imagine of a project repackaging Geany for Windows C-starters maybe adding a compiler, some tag-Fils, maybe some C-docuemntation etc. or another idea is like pidgin adding some options to installer to download compiler you need. Unfortunately I'm not this familiar with all that Windowsstuff at that point ....
Cheers, Frank
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Frank Lanitz frank@frank.uvena.de wrote:
I think you already got a lot of answers but I also want to add my 2ct. Even I understand your idea, I don't think Geany itself should ship any C compiler -- or any other -- with it.
I still think shipping a compiler makes sense for Windoze. Code::Blocks does have MinGW bundled binary for Windoze: http://www.codeblocks.org/downloads/binaries But you know, C::B is bloated and too complicated for noob, anyway.
BUT: I can imagine of a project repackaging Geany for Windows C-starters maybe adding a compiler, some tag-Fils, maybe some C-docuemntation etc. or another idea is like pidgin adding some options to installer to download compiler you need. Unfortunately I'm not this familiar with all that Windowsstuff at that point ....
Actually I don't use IDEs very often and I run Linux and Mac OS X. For various reasons, many uninformed people in my country end up using Visual C++ 6.0 or Turbo C 2.0 to learn C/C++ ... Geany, IMO, is a promising choice of beginner's IDE after I tried Dev-C++ (even new Orwell fork) and Code::Blocks. Sure, it is also good for advanced people. That's my motivation. But it seems that I cannot even Windoze user of Geany here, is it the case?
But it seems that I cannot even MEET Windoze user of Geany here, is it the case?
sorry for my typo.
On 08/10/2012 10:45 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
But it seems that I cannot even MEET Windoze user of Geany here, is it the case?
sorry for my typo. _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
I (and others on my team) use Geany for C++ development under Windows at work, lately over an SMB share to a Linux box where the files and other tools (G++ etc.) are located. I also use it for developing Green Hills C++ projects on my office Windows workstation. Occasionally for small test stuff using MinGW.
Bob S.
Hi,
On 08/10/2012 07:44 PM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Frank Lanitz frank@frank.uvena.de wrote:
I think you already got a lot of answers but I also want to add my 2ct. Even I understand your idea, I don't think Geany itself should ship any C compiler -- or any other -- with it.
I still think shipping a compiler makes sense for Windoze. Code::Blocks does have MinGW bundled binary for Windoze: http://www.codeblocks.org/downloads/binaries But you know, C::B is bloated and too complicated for noob, anyway.
No, shipping a compiler with Geany wouldn't make sense. Geany is general purpose editor. You can use it for many things. HTML, Ruby, gnu octave, gnuplot or even just plain text. None of these require a compiler. Also, in my opinion, we should leave the choice of the compiler to the user. If somebody wants to use a different compiler, he shouldn't have to install one that comes with his favourite text editor. For C::B and similar IDE's the situation is a bit different. They are C/C++ specific editors and it using them without having a compiler installed beats the purpose of using them in the first place...
BUT: I can imagine of a project repackaging Geany for Windows C-starters maybe adding a compiler, some tag-Fils, maybe some C-docuemntation etc. or another idea is like pidgin adding some options to installer to download compiler you need. Unfortunately I'm not this familiar with all that Windowsstuff at that point ....
Actually I don't use IDEs very often and I run Linux and Mac OS X. For various reasons, many uninformed people in my country end up using Visual C++ 6.0 or Turbo C 2.0 to learn C/C++ ... Geany, IMO, is a promising choice of beginner's IDE after I tried Dev-C++ (even new Orwell fork) and Code::Blocks. Sure, it is also good for advanced people. That's my motivation. But it seems that I cannot even Windoze user of Geany here, is it the case? _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
Regards, Laurent
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Laurent Hoeltgen hoeltgman@gmail.com wrote:
No, shipping a compiler with Geany wouldn't make sense. Geany is general purpose editor. You can use it for many things. HTML, Ruby, gnu octave, gnuplot or even just plain text. None of these require a compiler.
That's true. But since Windoze don't always use /usr/bin, the PATH setting is always annoying and challenging for noobs. I got your point though, a MinGW bundled version, if any, may not become "official".
Also, in my opinion, we should leave the choice of the compiler to the user. If somebody wants to use a different compiler, he shouldn't have to install one that comes with his favourite text editor.
Well, the choice of complier is possible but not "very easy" in Geany, I guess. Because the default build command settings of C/C++ is for GCC. So if one have GCC installed (and PATH correctly added in Windoze), then C/C++ works out-of-the-box. Or if one want to use another compiler, she has to figure out the compiler's command syntax. ( C::B is much easier since configuration of many compilers is built-in. )
On 11/08/12 04:43, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Laurent Hoeltgen hoeltgman@gmail.com wrote:
No, shipping a compiler with Geany wouldn't make sense. Geany is general purpose editor. You can use it for many things. HTML, Ruby, gnu octave, gnuplot or even just plain text. None of these require a compiler.
That's true. But since Windoze don't always use /usr/bin, the PATH setting is always annoying and challenging for noobs. I got your point though, a MinGW bundled version, if any, may not become "official".
I'd like to add my 2cents as well:
including a Mingw distribution into Geany's official installer won't happen, for various reasons.
First, Geany is just an IDE or text editor or something between. Its job is to help users writing code, not to provide everything to get it compiling/running, especially because Geany supports not only C but also many many more languages. Setting up an environment capable of compiling/running/debugging code was, is and will be the responsibility of the user because only he knows what she needs and wishes. You are speaking multiple times of "noobs". I think less advanced users need a tutorial how to setup a dev environment. They don't need a huge installer with everything in. That would maybe ease installation but won't help understanding what's going on. And then, from my experience, users who want to learn a programming language, especially a language like C, are not that noobish anymore. They should know how to install a program or how to unpack an archive into a specific path.
Then, if we would include Mingw for C development, then Python users will arrive and request inclusion of a Python runtime, then the Perl guys, PHP, Ruby, ... The installer would end up in a 3 GB file with everything included.
Another reason is that it might raise licensing questions when bundling different runtime environments of various languages into one installer, even if they are all Free Software.
To sum it up: the Geany installer won't get a bundled Mingw or whatever environment built into. However, as others said before, if anyone wants to do that as a contribution, that is welcome.
Regards, Enrico
P.S.: Generally it helps to use the correct names of software components in the public, even if you don't like them (which is also true for me and probably many others) but still using something like "Windoze" might create a wrong impression of how serious you are about the whole topic.
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
First, Geany is just an IDE or text editor or something between. Its job is to help users writing code, not to provide everything to get it compiling/running, especially because Geany supports not only C but also many many more languages. Setting up an environment capable of compiling/running/debugging code was, is and will be the responsibility of the user because only he knows what she needs and wishes.
That's definitely true. It's amazing to know that Geany is quite general-purpose.
You are speaking multiple times of "noobs". I think less advanced users need a tutorial how to setup a dev environment. They don't need a huge installer with everything in. That would maybe ease installation but won't help understanding what's going on. And then, from my experience, users who want to learn a programming language, especially a language like C, are not that noobish anymore. They should know how to install a program or how to unpack an archive into a specific path.
I'm writing a Wiki page. https://wiki.geany.org/tag/win32/getting-started Actually myself want a bundled, PATH independent version, too. Since it would be hard to setup PATH in low privilege Windoze environment like that found in my department.
Then, if we would include Mingw for C development, then Python users will arrive and request inclusion of a Python runtime, then the Perl guys, PHP, Ruby, ... The installer would end up in a 3 GB file with everything included.
Anyway, what I proposed an addition rather than a replacement. It's just like there is a GTK bundled version.
Another reason is that it might raise licensing questions when bundling different runtime environments of various languages into one installer, even if they are all Free Software.
True. But GCC should be OK, anyway.
To sum it up: the Geany installer won't get a bundled Mingw or whatever environment built into. However, as others said before, if anyone wants to do that as a contribution, that is welcome.
Yes, I'd like to do it unofficially.
P.S.: Generally it helps to use the correct names of software components in the public, even if you don't like them (which is also true for me and probably many others) but still using something like "Windoze" might create a wrong impression of how serious you are about the whole topic.
I'm grateful that Windows users seems not offended by "Windoze". Windows is a trademark of a giant firm, anyway. So I'd keep the spelling in this thread.
Hi,
You are speaking multiple times of "noobs". I think less advanced users need a tutorial how to setup a dev environment. They don't need a huge installer with everything in. That would maybe ease installation but won't help understanding what's going on. And then, from my experience, users who want to learn a programming language, especially a language like C, are not that noobish anymore. They should know how to install a program or how to unpack an archive into a specific path.
I'm writing a Wiki page. https://wiki.geany.org/tag/win32/getting-started
Nice! However, the page seems to be in a namespace "tag" which was probably not on purpose. But renaming the page isn't that hard. I'd say it should live under /howtos/win32/getting-started
Then, if we would include Mingw for C development, then Python users will arrive and request inclusion of a Python runtime, then the Perl guys, PHP, Ruby, ... The installer would end up in a 3 GB file with everything included.
Anyway, what I proposed an addition rather than a replacement. It's just like there is a GTK bundled version.
There is a fundamental difference: the GTK runtime is necessary to start Geany at all while a Mingw/GCC environment is only helpful (not even necessary) to write C code with Geany. Please don't mix this.
Regards, Enrico
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Nice! However, the page seems to be in a namespace "tag" which was probably not on purpose. But renaming the page isn't that hard. I'd say it should live under /howtos/win32/getting-started
I'm sorry. I haven't figured out a way other than duplicate the page in howtos and remove the origin page in tags
There is a fundamental difference: the GTK runtime is necessary to start Geany at all while a Mingw/GCC environment is only helpful (not even necessary) to write C code with Geany. Please don't mix this.
You know, there are enough people think that they are using Code::Blocks compiler, Dev-C++ compiler, Eclipse compiler or Visual C++ compiler. So you don't want "Geany compiler", right?
On 12-08-12 07:54 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Nice! However, the page seems to be in a namespace "tag" which was probably not on purpose. But renaming the page isn't that hard. I'd say it should live under /howtos/win32/getting-started
I'm sorry. I haven't figured out a way other than duplicate the page in howtos and remove the origin page in tags
There is a fundamental difference: the GTK runtime is necessary to start Geany at all while a Mingw/GCC environment is only helpful (not even necessary) to write C code with Geany. Please don't mix this.
You know, there are enough people think that they are using Code::Blocks compiler, Dev-C++ compiler, Eclipse compiler or Visual C++ compiler. So you don't want "Geany compiler", right?
Right.
We could always change the default build commands for C and C++ to use the Microsoft compiler (cl.exe or whatever) on Windows. Then you could compile a C/C++ "hello world" application "out of the box".
Cheers, Matthew Brush
Is cl.exe preinstalled? I thought you need visual studio which I wouldn't consider out of the box.
Best regards
-----Original Message----- From: Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca To: geany@uvena.de Sent: So., 12 Aug 2012 19:29 Subject: Re: [Geany] Geany as Windoze noob's learning tool
On 12-08-12 07:54 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Nice! However, the page seems to be in a namespace "tag" which was probably not on purpose. But renaming the page isn't that hard. I'd say it should live under /howtos/win32/getting-started
I'm sorry. I haven't figured out a way other than duplicate the page in howtos and remove the origin page in tags
There is a fundamental difference: the GTK runtime is necessary to start Geany at all while a Mingw/GCC environment is only helpful (not even necessary) to write C code with Geany. Please don't mix this.
You know, there are enough people think that they are using Code::Blocks compiler, Dev-C++ compiler, Eclipse compiler or Visual C++ compiler. So you don't want "Geany compiler", right?
Right.
We could always change the default build commands for C and C++ to use the Microsoft compiler (cl.exe or whatever) on Windows. Then you could compile a C/C++ "hello world" application "out of the box".
Cheers, Matthew Brush _______________________________________________ Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany
( Note: I would still use "Windoze". I'm sorry for my poor spelling. )
cl.exe is never pre-installed in Windoze. You can get cl.exe by the following ways: Download and install Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (gratis, outdated) Download and install Microsoft Visual C++ Express (gratis, seemingly crippled) Buy and install Microsoft Visual C++ (only this one has MFC support) ( I say Visual C++ Express is crippled because some of my friends once find that same program has significant performance downgrade in the Express edition. )
[...]
I'm grateful that Windows users seems not offended by "Windoze".
You seem to be assuming that, because nobody has complained, nobody is offended/annoyed by your misuse of the name.
You have had one complaint, please consider this to be another on behalf of several contributors.
Remember that your message is forwarded to the whole mailing list.
Windows is a trademark of a giant firm, anyway.
Which is irrelevant to politeness and professionalism.
So I'd keep the spelling in this thread.
Of course nobody can stop you, but as mentioned, doing so may result in your contributions being given less consideration than they otherwise might get.
Regards Lex
Geany mailing list Geany@uvena.de https://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany