Hello!
Has anyone ever thought about to make to restructure help like this?
main index (indexes only) * *-------pointers to readme and faq with lightweight desc to hit the main point. * * *------index_de *------index_en (this does not need translation, only link correction) .... *------index_etc
Of course we need to translate all local indexes, but we could share the same pictures, at least from the beginning. That's the point.
Cheers,
Jože
Hi,
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:34:27 +0200 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
Has anyone ever thought about to make to restructure help like this?
main index (indexes only)
*-------pointers to readme and faq with lightweight desc to hit the main point.
*------index_de *------index_en (this does not need translation, only link correction) .... *------index_etc
Of course we need to translate all local indexes, but we could share the same pictures, at least from the beginning. That's the point.
Well, we didn't thought about something like this before, as at the moment the translations of manual are just not translated to any other language beside English one. However, if you like to start a translation for the manual we would be happy to find a way to make it visible for all of the users and I think some kind of i18n-index page would be a good idea for doing this
Thanks, Frank
Hi, I too am interested in translating the manual (to Spanish).
Cheers,
2010/4/9 Frank Lanitz frank@frank.uvena.de
Hi,
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:34:27 +0200 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
Has anyone ever thought about to make to restructure help like this?
main index (indexes only)
*-------pointers to readme and faq with lightweight desc to hit the main point.
*------index_de *------index_en (this does not need translation, only link correction) .... *------index_etc
Of course we need to translate all local indexes, but we could share the same pictures, at least from the beginning. That's the point.
Well, we didn't thought about something like this before, as at the moment the translations of manual are just not translated to any other language beside English one. However, if you like to start a translation for the manual we would be happy to find a way to make it visible for all of the users and I think some kind of i18n-index page would be a good idea for doing this
Thanks, Frank
Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
Hi,
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:58:25 +0200 Lucas Vieites lucasvieites@gmail.com wrote:
I too am interested in translating the manual (to Spanish).
Did you already start some translation work onto manual?
Thanks, Frank
Na 09. 04. 2010 22:46, Frank Lanitz je pisal:
Hi,
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:58:25 +0200 Lucas Vieiteslucasvieites@gmail.com wrote:
I too am interested in translating the manual (to Spanish).
Did you already start some translation work onto manual?
Thanks, Frank
Hi,
things look great. To do them, we need just a little push.
I plan to do Slovenian as I wrote help in next month as I have some other things to do.
Cheers,
Jože
--------- BTW: I tried waf and all problems with Slovenian translation (sl.po) miraculosly disappeared. Bug in waf, Poedit, elsewhere?
Hi,
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:20:02 +0200 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
things look great. To do them, we need just a little push.
*Push* ;)
I plan to do Slovenian as I wrote help in next month as I have some other things to do.
OK. Great. So we have a project with translating manual to Slovenian, Spanish and as I cannot say 'no' at this moment, also to German langauage withint the next weeks / month.
But I'm not sure at the moment how to do this at best. Currently I can think of using a wiki or a git repo to work on the translations on the first hand, but also keep the basis version ( = the English one) up to date as I suggest to start working with 0.19 devel version of it. What do you think about?
Cheers, Frank
Na 10. 04. 2010 19:11, Frank Lanitz je pisal:
Hi,
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:20:02 +0200 "Jože Klepec"joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
things look great. To do them, we need just a little push.
*Push* ;)
I plan to do Slovenian as I wrote help in next month as I have some other things to do.
OK. Great. So we have a project with translating manual to Slovenian, Spanish and as I cannot say 'no' at this moment, also to German langauage withint the next weeks / month.
But I'm not sure at the moment how to do this at best. Currently I can think of using a wiki or a git repo to work on the translations on the first hand, but also keep the basis version ( = the English one) up to date as I suggest to start working with 0.19 devel version of it. What do you think about?
Cheers, Frank
Good thougt. Bedtime now.
Cheers, Jože
Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 19:11 +0200 schrieb Frank Lanitz:
Hi,
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:20:02 +0200 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
things look great. To do them, we need just a little push.
*Push* ;)
I plan to do Slovenian as I wrote help in next month as I have some other things to do.
OK. Great. So we have a project with translating manual to Slovenian, Spanish and as I cannot say 'no' at this moment, also to German langauage withint the next weeks / month.
But I'm not sure at the moment how to do this at best. Currently I can think of using a wiki or a git repo to work on the translations on the first hand, but also keep the basis version ( = the English one) up to date as I suggest to start working with 0.19 devel version of it. What do you think about?
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this right? Why not just create files geany-es.txt, geany-de.txt and so on? Writing in reST shouldn't be a problem for the translators, is it? When using the current geany.txt as basis, you would just have to change the text and save it as geany-cc.txt (where cc is your countrycode).
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the index-file you were talking about.
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and when something changes on the files, send a patch accordingly. This is how translations for Geany works at present and I don't think it's necessary to change it much, unless Frank feels too stressed with applying patches. :)
Best Regards, Dominic
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:02:45 +0200, Dominic wrote:
Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 19:11 +0200 schrieb Frank Lanitz:
Hi,
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:20:02 +0200 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
things look great. To do them, we need just a little push.
*Push* ;)
I plan to do Slovenian as I wrote help in next month as I have some other things to do.
OK. Great. So we have a project with translating manual to Slovenian, Spanish and as I cannot say 'no' at this moment, also to German langauage withint the next weeks / month.
But I'm not sure at the moment how to do this at best. Currently I can think of using a wiki or a git repo to work on the translations on the first hand, but also keep the basis version ( = the English one) up to date as I suggest to start working with 0.19 devel version of it. What do you think about?
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this right? Why not just create files geany-es.txt, geany-de.txt and so on? Writing in reST shouldn't be a problem for the translators, is it? When using the current geany.txt as basis, you would just have to change the text and save it as geany-cc.txt (where cc is your countrycode).
This would be the easiest way. Though it might be not that easy for translators to keep their translations up2date. The geany.txt in SVN changes from time to time when we add/change things. Not sure how busy translators would be keeping their copies up2date. This is way easier for normal translations of code as msgfmt and intltool manage the changes and merge them into the translations. Though, for a whole documentation this won't work and that's why I never considered it a good idea to translate documentation. Not that it wouldn't be useful but the risk of outdated or inconsistent translations is too high if translators loose interest, time or whatever to keep it up2date.
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the index-file you were talking about.
I don't see any reason why and so I'd rather keep the "original", English version at geany.txt. I didn't get the whole "index file" thing. Are you talking about webservers?
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and when something changes on the files, send a patch accordingly. This is how translations for Geany works at present and I don't think it's necessary to change it much, unless Frank feels too stressed with applying patches. :)
I fully agree here.
Regards, Enrico
Hi, using CAT software like OmegaT makes keeping a translation of an html updated very easy.
El 11/04/2010 15:52, "Enrico Tröger" enrico.troeger@uvena.de escribió:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:02:45 +0200, Dominic wrote:
Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 19:11 +0200 schrieb...
This would be the easiest way. Though it might be not that easy for translators to keep their translations up2date. The geany.txt in SVN changes from time to time when we add/change things. Not sure how busy translators would be keeping their copies up2date. This is way easier for normal translations of code as msgfmt and intltool manage the changes and merge them into the translations. Though, for a whole documentation this won't work and that's why I never considered it a good idea to translate documentation. Not that it wouldn't be useful but the risk of outdated or inconsistent translations is too high if translators loose interest, time or whatever to keep it up2date.
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the i...
I don't see any reason why and so I'd rather keep the "original", English version at geany.txt. I didn't get the whole "index file" thing. Are you talking about webservers?
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and ...
I fully agree here.
Regards, Enrico
-- Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.asc
_______________________________________________ Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
Hi,
I don't think we will come far if everyone pushes his own direction. We need to: 1.) Split help to several separated geany_h_nn.po on the same cliché as we translate gui. 2.) Use the same tool collection as we had until now, merely with additional scripts to boost them. We just introduced waf and there is probably no common knowledge about it (I admit, I personally used it previous week for the first time!).
So we need to boost, make robust, not to expand too fast. That's where Enrico is right.
About index: no, this is the main (core) quick help file to redirect, installed by default. If you choose another language for interface or you want massive help, you select additional help file and download it. Pointers from it are in the main file and autoredirect to it.
Cheers,
Jože
Na 11. 04. 2010 20:37, Lucas Vieites je pisal:
Hi, using CAT software like OmegaT makes keeping a translation of an html updated very easy.
El 11/04/2010 15:52, "Enrico Tröger" <enrico.troeger@uvena.de mailto:enrico.troeger@uvena.de> escribió:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:02:45 +0200, Dominic wrote:
Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 19:11 +0200 schrieb...
This would be the easiest way. Though it might be not that easy for translators to keep their translations up2date. The geany.txt in SVN changes from time to time when we add/change things. Not sure how busy translators would be keeping their copies up2date. This is way easier for normal translations of code as msgfmt and intltool manage the changes and merge them into the translations. Though, for a whole documentation this won't work and that's why I never considered it a good idea to translate documentation. Not that it wouldn't be useful but the risk of outdated or inconsistent translations is too high if translators loose interest, time or whatever to keep it up2date.
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the i...
I don't see any reason why and so I'd rather keep the "original", English version at geany.txt. I didn't get the whole "index file" thing. Are you talking about webservers?
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and ...
I fully agree here.
Regards, Enrico
-- Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.asc
Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de mailto:Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
Na 11. 04. 2010 20:37, Lucas Vieites je pisal:
Hi, using CAT software like OmegaT makes keeping a translation of an html updated very easy.
I don't know OmegaT. Does anyone of you know Transifex and/or did work with it at some time? Maybe Transifex could help in doing this. I had a short look at it once the Xfce project switched to it and since then there is quite a boom in new translations/-updates :). Though I'm not sure how many more it can do than usual .po file managing.
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:25:56 +0200, Jože wrote:
Hi,
I don't think we will come far if everyone pushes his own direction. We need to: 1.) Split help to several separated geany_h_nn.po on the same cliché as we translate gui.
Oh. This certainly helps translating but would maintaining it also harder, I think.
2.) Use the same tool collection as we had until now, merely with additional scripts to boost them. We just introduced waf and there is
Yeah, see above about OmegaT and Transifex.
Regards, Enrico
Hi, I wasn't proposing any tool change, I just considered that, as a translator, I have to be able to choose my translation tool. That is not supposed to be part of the development. Right now, when I press F1 in Geany, a Firefox window pops up showing a local html file ("file:///var/opt/share/doc/geany/html/index.html", "/var/opt/" is where I have installed my svn version of Geany).
I interpreted the initial proposition by Jože Klepec as a way of showing the translated html file for the current locale to the user when he/she presses F1 (or uses the "Help" menu). Another project I contribute translations to (Inkscape) does it like that; the Help files are links to the translated versions of the current locale, if a translation for that locale does not exist, then show the default (English).
The only "big" problem for translators is having the source of the Help file(s) in a supported format for their CAT (Computer Aided Translation) tool. In my case I use "OmegaT" and "Open Language Tools" for documentation and "KBabel" or "gtranslator" for .po files. The first two tools have the ability to use Translation Memories, so you can reuse previous tranlsations when updating a version. You will only have to change the modified strings (fuzzies) and translate the new strings.
Just my 2 cents, cheers,
2010/4/11 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net
Hi,
I don't think we will come far if everyone pushes his own direction. We need to: 1.) Split help to several separated geany_h_nn.po on the same cliché as we translate gui. 2.) Use the same tool collection as we had until now, merely with additional scripts to boost them. We just introduced waf and there is probably no common knowledge about it (I admit, I personally used it previous week for the first time!).
So we need to boost, make robust, not to expand too fast. That's where Enrico is right.
About index: no, this is the main (core) quick help file to redirect, installed by default. If you choose another language for interface or you want massive help, you select additional help file and download it. Pointers from it are in the main file and autoredirect to it.
Cheers,
Jože
Na 11. 04. 2010 20:37, Lucas Vieites je pisal:
Hi, using CAT software like OmegaT makes keeping a translation of an html updated very easy.
El 11/04/2010 15:52, "Enrico Tröger" <enrico.troeger@uvena.de <mailto:
enrico.troeger@uvena.de>> escribió:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:02:45 +0200, Dominic wrote:
Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 19:11 +0200 schrieb...
This would be the easiest way. Though it might be not that easy for translators to keep their translations up2date. The geany.txt in SVN changes from time to time when we add/change things. Not sure how busy translators would be keeping their copies up2date. This is way easier for normal translations of code as msgfmt and intltool manage the changes and merge them into the translations. Though, for a whole documentation this won't work and that's why I never considered it a good idea to translate documentation. Not that it wouldn't be useful but the risk of outdated or inconsistent translations is too high if translators loose interest, time or whatever to keep it up2date.
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the i...
I don't see any reason why and so I'd rather keep the "original", English version at geany.txt. I didn't get the whole "index file" thing. Are you talking about webservers?
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and ...
I fully agree here.
Regards, Enrico
-- Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.asc
Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de mailto:Geany-i18n@uvena.de
Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:02:45 +0200 Dominic Hopf dmaphy@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Samstag, den 10.04.2010, 19:11 +0200 schrieb Frank Lanitz:
Hi,
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:20:02 +0200 "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
things look great. To do them, we need just a little push.
*Push* ;)
I plan to do Slovenian as I wrote help in next month as I have some other things to do.
OK. Great. So we have a project with translating manual to Slovenian, Spanish and as I cannot say 'no' at this moment, also to German langauage withint the next weeks / month.
But I'm not sure at the moment how to do this at best. Currently I can think of using a wiki or a git repo to work on the translations on the first hand, but also keep the basis version ( = the English one) up to date as I suggest to start working with 0.19 devel version of it. What do you think about?
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this right?
AT least the basis of all, yes.
Why not just create files geany-es.txt, geany-de.txt and so on? Writing in reST shouldn't be a problem for the translators, is it? When using the current geany.txt as basis, you would just have to change the text and save it as geany-cc.txt (where cc is your countrycode).
Yes, I think this would be a goal of the project.
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the index-file you were talking about.
I disagree. I'd prefer something similar to LANG=C also for translations to make clear, which is the "main" translation, the fallback one.
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and when something changes on the files, send a patch accordingly. This is how translations for Geany works at present and I don't think it's necessary to change it much, unless Frank feels too stressed with applying patches. :)
Basically, you are right. Unfortunately without any support tools or support process I'm afraid translators might losing some changes inside English translation to port which might can cause conflicts inside documentation.
Cheers, Frank
Hi again, [...]
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this right?
AT least the basis of all, yes.
If I understand correctly, the html file is generated from this txt file at some point?
Why not just create files geany-es.txt, geany-de.txt and so on? Writing in reST shouldn't be a problem for the translators, is it? When using the current geany.txt as basis, you would just have to change the text and save it as geany-cc.txt (where cc is your countrycode).
Yes, I think this would be a goal of the project.
Maybe the current geany.txt could be renamed to geany-en.txt so that the geany.txt will be the index-file you were talking about.
I disagree. I'd prefer something similar to LANG=C also for translations to make clear, which is the "main" translation, the fallback one.
Translators could just begin to write their geany-cc.txt and send it to Frank or this list, and when something changes on the files, send a patch accordingly. This is how translations for Geany works at present and I don't think it's necessary to change it much, unless Frank feels too stressed with applying patches. :)
Basically, you are right. Unfortunately without any support tools or support process I'm afraid translators might losing some changes inside English translation to port which might can cause conflicts inside documentation.
As I explained (hopefully clearly) in a previous message, this is no problem when using software that supports translation memories. I will be glad to create a small document showing how to use such software (there are several open-source alternatives available).
Cheers, Frank -- http://frank.uvena.de/en/
Cheers,
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:05:32 +0200, Lucas Vieites lucasvieites@gmail.com wrote:
Hi again, [...]
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this right?
AT least the basis of all, yes.
If I understand correctly, the html file is generated from this txt file at some point?
Yes, this is correct. geany.txt is the basis for all documents created from (at the moment only the html one)
As I explained (hopefully clearly) in a previous message, this is no problem when using software that supports translation memories. I will be glad to create a small document showing how to use such software (there are several open-source alternatives available).
This would be great and bring some more light into discussion.
Thanks, Frank
Na 13. 04. 2010 13:22, Frank Lanitz je pisal:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:05:32 +0200, Lucas Vieiteslucasvieites@gmail.com wrote:
Hi again, [...]
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this right?
AT least the basis of all, yes.
If I understand correctly, the html file is generated from this txt file at some point?
Yes, this is correct. geany.txt is the basis for all documents created from (at the moment only the html one)
As I explained (hopefully clearly) in a previous message, this is no problem when using software that supports translation memories. I will be glad to create a small document showing how to use such software (there are several open-source alternatives available).
This would be great and bring some more light into discussion.
Thanks, Frank _______________________________________________ Geany-i18n mailing list Geany-i18n@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-i18n
And the light really came.
We all need (at first) to translate only geany.txt. :)))
Cheers,
Jože
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:18:05 +0200, "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
Na 13. 04. 2010 13:22, Frank Lanitz je pisal:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:05:32 +0200, Lucas
Vieiteslucasvieites@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi again, [...]
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this
right?
AT least the basis of all, yes.
If I understand correctly, the html file is generated from this txt file at some point?
Yes, this is correct. geany.txt is the basis for all documents created from (at the moment only the html one)
[..]
And the light really came.
We all need (at first) to translate only geany.txt. :)))
Yes, in fact. But we also need to ensure, changes on upstream (aka English version of geany.txt) are getting propagaded to l10n version of. Will try to put some answer to other mails inside this thread soon.
Cheers, Frank
Hi,
2010/4/13 Frank Lanitz frank@frank.uvena.de:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:18:05 +0200, "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
Na 13. 04. 2010 13:22, Frank Lanitz je pisal:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:05:32 +0200, Lucas
Vieiteslucasvieites@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi again, [...]
At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this
right?
AT least the basis of all, yes.
If I understand correctly, the html file is generated from this txt file at some point?
Yes, this is correct. geany.txt is the basis for all documents created from (at the moment only the html one)
[..]
And the light really came.
We all need (at first) to translate only geany.txt. :)))
Yes, in fact. But we also need to ensure, changes on upstream (aka English version of geany.txt) are getting propagaded to l10n version of. Will try to put some answer to other mails inside this thread soon.
I found a good beginner's tutorial to OmegaT here: http://leuce.com/tempfile/omegat_intro.swf Once you have translated the source file for the first time, those translations stay in the Translation Memory (database) and are ready for reuse the next time you need to update it.
[...]
Hi,
I'll start translating geany.txt to Slovenian this weekend. Any name and standards proposals? :-)
Jože
Na 13. 04. 2010 16:24, Lucas Vieites je pisal:
Hi,
2010/4/13 Frank Lanitzfrank@frank.uvena.de:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:18:05 +0200, "Jože Klepec"joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
Na 13. 04. 2010 13:22, Frank Lanitz je pisal:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:05:32 +0200, Lucas
Vieiteslucasvieites@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi again, [...]
> At present the manual is the text file geany.txt if I see this >
right?
> AT least the basis of all, yes.
If I understand correctly, the html file is generated from this txt file at some point?
Yes, this is correct. geany.txt is the basis for all documents created from (at the moment only the html one)
[..]
And the light really came.
We all need (at first) to translate only geany.txt. :)))
Yes, in fact. But we also need to ensure, changes on upstream (aka English version of geany.txt) are getting propagaded to l10n version of. Will try to put some answer to other mails inside this thread soon.
I found a good beginner's tutorial to OmegaT here: http://leuce.com/tempfile/omegat_intro.swf Once you have translated the source file for the first time, those translations stay in the Translation Memory (database) and are ready for reuse the next time you need to update it.
[...]
Hi,
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:37:15 +0200, "Jože Klepec" joze.klepec@siol.net wrote:
I'll start translating geany.txt to Slovenian this weekend. Any name and
standards proposals? :-)
Well, I don't think so. Please just keep care, to use the same phrases you
did use for translation of Geany itself.
Cheers, Frank