On 13-10-10 05:47 PM, Yosef Or Boczko wrote:
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:27 AM, Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
On 13-10-10 05:14 PM, Yosef Or Boczko wrote:
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 2:43 AM, Colomban Wendling lists.ban@herbesfolles.org wrote:
Le 11/10/2013 01:24, Yosef Or Boczko a écrit :
[snip]
Also, in GNOME 3.10 the Stock items is drop [1], and UI with Stock is look outdated.
How does the UI look outdated? Using named icons won't change a thing, in the end they all use the theme's icons.
The icons in the menus and in the buttons in the dialogs isn't add any information. I not think the 'OK' icon is add information there isn't in the string „Save”.
So why have anything that doesn't add information? We could use text-only toolbar, force off user's theme choice and use plain/stock theme, remove choice of syntax highlighting colours, remove icons from the symbols tree, hard-code the font family and size to the Geany developers preference, etc...
In reality it doesn't matter what we think, or what the GNOME design team thinks, such stuff is extremely subjective and personal and the only apps that need to care about GNOME design manifesto are GNOME applications themselves.
It not right, you not adds things without any reason. In the toolbar there isn't place to text, so use icons with a tooltip instead. In button in dialog have a place to text, so not need a icon and a tooltip. Syntax Highlighting colours is for **highlighting** the code, and the icons in the symbols tree is for distinguish between kinds of symbols (yes, is not matter what is the icons in the symbols tree, it just need to be different), etc - for each thing in the UI have any reason!
As a real-life analogy since I'm quite bored right now...
I'm not sure how they are in all different parts of the world but I assume it's similar everywhere, traffic lights have at least 3 different round lamps in them, one is green which means "go", one is yellow which means "go faster or else you'll have to wait for a while", and one red which means "stop, unless nobody is looking". The reason such seemingly superfluous icons are useful in GUI elements is the same reason the traffic lights don't just display the words "proceed", "prepare to stop", and "stop" in monochromatic lettering.
The other reason the they are useful is because GUI widgets like traffic lights are not always in the same location, position, orientation, or size. Having those same 3 colours consistently everywhere permits drivers from different places to know what those differently sized and positioned traffic lights means.
Just consider the little disk, stop sign, or check-marks icons that the user learns as "traffic lights" for the user interface. For common actions, the text is actually redundant and the icon becomes more important (to those not using screen readers anyway).
Having both is fine since some icons and themes are not very understandable or are even missing icons[1] and sometimes you do need to read the labels since not all actions are common[1] and need descriptions, and also for accessibility purposes. I don't see a problem with a toolkit-wide option to disable those icons if the user requests, but it seems presumptuous to assume that they are not useful or wanted by many people.
P.S. As you can tell this subject is extremely controversial outside of GNOME-land (or at least inside of Geany-land), please don't mistake rants for anything personal against your own valid opinions :)
Before GNOME 3.10 I was used the icons in the buttons and in the menus, but I see is realy ugly and not useful.
It's so subjective though, I happen to think the exact opposite. I use XFCE, Win7 and MacOS Lion too, so it's not like I'm just not used to the different takes on this. This is precisely what user preferences are good for.
Cheers, Matthew Brush
[1]: Although I think with stock icons at least there was a sane fallback built into GTK+, not sure if that's deprecated too.