On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:18:05 +0000, ntrel@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Revision: 2787 http://geany.svn.sourceforge.net/geany/?rev=2787&view=rev Author: ntrel Date: 2008-07-17 17:17:51 +0000 (Thu, 17 Jul 2008)
Log Message:
Move editor popup menu current word items to submenu.
This was a nice idea but after using it for two days it comes very unhandy, IMO. I use especially Goto Definition and Find usage very often as it's just convenient but with the new submenu they got hard to reach.
Can anyone confirm this?
OTOH, I agree it's good to shorten this menu a little bit or at least to not bloat it more. Maybe we could remove or move the "Insert [Date|Comments|Includes]" menu items into the Format submenu.
But it mainly depends on their usage. The above suggestion is based on my personal usage habits, I'm afraid they will differ from those of other people :D.
Regards, Enrico
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:24:01 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:18:05 +0000, ntrel@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Revision: 2787 http://geany.svn.sourceforge.net/geany/?rev=2787&view=rev Author: ntrel Date: 2008-07-17 17:17:51 +0000 (Thu, 17 Jul 2008)
Log Message:
Move editor popup menu current word items to submenu.
This was a nice idea but after using it for two days it comes very unhandy, IMO. I use especially Goto Definition and Find usage very often as it's just convenient but with the new submenu they got hard to reach.
Can anyone confirm this?
Personally I just use keybindings. I thought it was good to group all the current word items together to make it clearer what they do, and to make the menu tidier. Also a small thing - it makes it much easier to avoid mnemonic conflicts.
Another thing I had in mind when doing this, is that often users don't realise there are keybindings for things that have no menu item. So having sub-menus for the popup menu means we can add many more menu items, and users can easily discover that there are more commands Geany supports.
e.g. There's a feature request for a 'Go to matching bracket' menu. This could be: Go to ->Line ->Matching Bracket ->Tag Definition? ->Tag Declaration?
OTOH, I agree it's good to shorten this menu a little bit or at least to not bloat it more. Maybe we could remove or move the "Insert [Date|Comments|Includes]" menu items into the Format submenu.
Well, insertion is not really formatting IMO.
Regards, Nick
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:53:04 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:24:01 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:18:05 +0000, ntrel@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Revision: 2787 http://geany.svn.sourceforge.net/geany/?rev=2787&view=rev Author: ntrel Date: 2008-07-17 17:17:51 +0000 (Thu, 17 Jul 2008)
Log Message:
Move editor popup menu current word items to submenu.
This was a nice idea but after using it for two days it comes very unhandy, IMO. I use especially Goto Definition and Find usage very often as it's just convenient but with the new submenu they got hard to reach.
Can anyone confirm this?
Personally I just use keybindings. I thought it was good to group all
Me not, not for Find usage and Goto Tag Defintion.
the current word items together to make it clearer what they do, and to make the menu tidier. Also a small thing - it makes it much easier to avoid mnemonic conflicts.
Another thing I had in mind when doing this, is that often users don't realise there are keybindings for things that have no menu item. So having sub-menus for the popup menu means we can add many more menu items, and users can easily discover that there are more commands Geany supports.
This would be good for new users to discover some of the (currently) not so obvious features but I don't see a real advantage in this when we at the same time make it more difficult to use the whole editor popup menu. At least I personally don't like submenus in the editor popup menu. They are fine in the main menubar but the editor menu should stay clean and not so bloated.
e.g. There's a feature request for a 'Go to matching bracket' menu. This could be: Go to ->Line ->Matching Bracket ->Tag Definition? ->Tag Declaration?
Same problem as above. But it's probably fine to add some more menu item to the Edit menu (in the menubar).
OTOH, I agree it's good to shorten this menu a little bit or at least to not bloat it more. Maybe we could remove or move the "Insert [Date|Comments|Includes]" menu items into the Format submenu.
Well, insertion is not really formatting IMO.
Right, it was just an idea...
Anyone else with a statement out there?
Regards, Enrico
Enrico Tröger a écrit :
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:53:04 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:24:01 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:18:05 +0000, ntrel@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Revision: 2787 http://geany.svn.sourceforge.net/geany/?rev=2787&view=rev Author: ntrel Date: 2008-07-17 17:17:51 +0000 (Thu, 17 Jul 2008)
Log Message:
Move editor popup menu current word items to submenu.
This was a nice idea but after using it for two days it comes very unhandy, IMO. I use especially Goto Definition and Find usage very often as it's just convenient but with the new submenu they got hard to reach.
Can anyone confirm this?
Personally I just use keybindings. I thought it was good to group all
Me not, not for Find usage and Goto Tag Defintion.
the current word items together to make it clearer what they do, and to make the menu tidier. Also a small thing - it makes it much easier to avoid mnemonic conflicts.
Another thing I had in mind when doing this, is that often users don't realise there are keybindings for things that have no menu item. So having sub-menus for the popup menu means we can add many more menu items, and users can easily discover that there are more commands Geany supports.
This would be good for new users to discover some of the (currently) not so obvious features but I don't see a real advantage in this when we at the same time make it more difficult to use the whole editor popup menu. At least I personally don't like submenus in the editor popup menu. They are fine in the main menubar but the editor menu should stay clean and not so bloated.
e.g. There's a feature request for a 'Go to matching bracket' menu. This could be: Go to ->Line ->Matching Bracket ->Tag Definition? ->Tag Declaration?
Same problem as above. But it's probably fine to add some more menu item to the Edit menu (in the menubar).
OTOH, I agree it's good to shorten this menu a little bit or at least to not bloat it more. Maybe we could remove or move the "Insert [Date|Comments|Includes]" menu items into the Format submenu.
Well, insertion is not really formatting IMO.
Right, it was just an idea...
Anyone else with a statement out there?
Hi, I myself don't use this popup menu regularly, so I'd like it to be clean se it could help find the wanted action quickly.
An 'insert' submenu could be created to gain menu entries without cluttering the format submenu (even if I don't find it particularly bloated)
That said, I think the killer feature would be the capacity to edit this submenu (adding/removing predefined or custom actions on different contexts -document, line, word etc...-) :-)
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:19:16 +0200, Jean-Philippe skateinmars@skateinmars.net wrote:
Hey,
That said, I think the killer feature would be the capacity to edit this submenu (adding/removing predefined or custom actions on different contexts -document, line, word etc...-) :-)
I just played a little bit with this idea (actually longer than I should have) and my results are in the 'dynamic-editor-menu' branch.
It uses GtkUIManager to build the editor menu and makes it more easy to customise by editing ui_editor_menu.xml which is installed in $prefix/share/geany and can/should be copied into ~/.geany when modified. The code first reads it from ~/.geany, if this has failed it tries to read the global one.
Anyway, feel warned this code is more or less just for testing and probably still buggy (I didn't do much testing).
Advantages over the editor menu defined in geany.glade: - less code - to some extend user-customisable - easier to add/change menu items
Disadvantages: - no shown keybinding accelerators (maybe I just didn't find the way right to show them, tried 20 different things, anyway most other popup menus also don't show accelerators so this might be not that surprising) - users can only move or remove menu items, new ones can't be added (also not that bad) - users can't create new submenus - I had to add ugly hacks to get the Send Selection To, Insert Date and Insert Includes menus working (see the ugly Dummy actions). There is maybe a better, cleaner way to achieve this - Currently, the mentioned submenus can't change their pre-defined submenu level otherwise they won't work anymore
So, after all, first I was impressed because I could very quickly build the current menu with the new code. But the three mentioned submenus are causing ugly problems as they are generated manually in Geany and so currently some hacks are necessary (the gtk_ui_manager_get_widget () calls in ui_utils.c are ugly as they use the hardcoded path of an item and this is what we want to have customisable). There should be a way to do the necessary operations on the corresponding actions instead of widgets but that's maybe not possible.
Conclusion: a) while working on it, I realised that it might be not worth to actually use this code. Just drop your comments, ideas, objections here. b) even if we drop this code and keep the old editor menu without customisation, I'm sure we can use the GtkUIManager class to build the toolbar and make it so much more customisable than it is currently. There are less dynamically created items and there it should make really more sense.
Oh, Dominic suggested on IRC to use XUL or something similar. Hmm, I guess XUL can't be used stand-alone and installing all of the xulrunner suite for a customisable popup menu is a no-go. Anyway, there is libglade. But it's an additional dependency and I don't like this just for a popup menu. The best solution would might be the GtkBuilder class which could do the job but it's only available since GTK 2.12. So, it gets also a no. Anything left?
Yay, I'm finished.
Regards, Enrico
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:22:59 +0200, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Hey,
Conclusion: a) while working on it, I realised that it might be not worth to actually use this code. Just drop your comments, ideas, objections here. b) even if we drop this code and keep the old editor menu without customisation, I'm sure we can use the GtkUIManager class to build the toolbar and make it so much more customisable than it is currently. There are less dynamically created items and there it should make really more sense.
Nobody wants to state on this?
A simple yes, no, I don't care would be cool, with some reasons it would be even better :D.
Regards, Enrico
Hi,
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:11:37 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:22:59 +0200, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Hey,
Conclusion: a) while working on it, I realised that it might be not worth to actually use this code. Just drop your comments, ideas, objections here. b) even if we drop this code and keep the old editor menu without customisation, I'm sure we can use the GtkUIManager class to build the toolbar and make it so much more customisable than it is currently. There are less dynamically created items and there it should make really more sense.
Nobody wants to state on this?
A simple yes, no, I don't care would be cool, with some reasons it would be even better :D.
So... "I don't care". In genereal the changes sounds good, but since I never did something with the popup before I'm just without any emotions.
Thanks, Frank
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:11:37 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:22:59 +0200, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Hey,
Conclusion: a) while working on it, I realised that it might be not worth to actually use this code. Just drop your comments, ideas, objections here. b) even if we drop this code and keep the old editor menu without customisation, I'm sure we can use the GtkUIManager class to build the toolbar and make it so much more customisable than it is currently. There are less dynamically created items and there it should make really more sense.
Nobody wants to state on this?
A simple yes, no, I don't care would be cool, with some reasons it would be even better :D.
I've been busy with the custom-tab-width branch, haven't had time to try this. I think looking at GtkUIManager is a good idea for menus and the toolbar. I don't know about the popup menu, maybe people wouldn't bother customizing it unless there was a GUI way of doing it.
Regards, Nick
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:42:30 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:11:37 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:22:59 +0200, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Hey,
Conclusion: a) while working on it, I realised that it might be not worth to actually use this code. Just drop your comments, ideas, objections here. b) even if we drop this code and keep the old editor menu without customisation, I'm sure we can use the GtkUIManager class to build the toolbar and make it so much more customisable than it is currently. There are less dynamically created items and there it should make really more sense.
Nobody wants to state on this?
A simple yes, no, I don't care would be cool, with some reasons it would be even better :D.
I've been busy with the custom-tab-width branch, haven't had time to try this. I think looking at GtkUIManager is a good idea for menus and the toolbar. I don't know about the popup menu, maybe people wouldn't bother customizing it unless there was a GUI way of doing it.
As a Geany user I'd be happy about such a way to customize the toolbar/menus as it is also possible in a similar way (mostly using libglade) in many other apps. But I'm also aware that it is often more comfortable to change such things with a nice GUI interface but this still needs to be written.
Regards, Enrico
Enrico Tröger a écrit :
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:42:30 +0100, Nick Treleaven nick.treleaven@btinternet.com wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:11:37 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:22:59 +0200, Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
Hey,
Conclusion: a) while working on it, I realised that it might be not worth to actually use this code. Just drop your comments, ideas, objections here. b) even if we drop this code and keep the old editor menu without customisation, I'm sure we can use the GtkUIManager class to build the toolbar and make it so much more customisable than it is currently. There are less dynamically created items and there it should make really more sense.
Nobody wants to state on this?
A simple yes, no, I don't care would be cool, with some reasons it would be even better :D.
I've been busy with the custom-tab-width branch, haven't had time to try this. I think looking at GtkUIManager is a good idea for menus and the toolbar. I don't know about the popup menu, maybe people wouldn't bother customizing it unless there was a GUI way of doing it.
As a Geany user I'd be happy about such a way to customize the toolbar/menus as it is also possible in a similar way (mostly using libglade) in many other apps. But I'm also aware that it is often more comfortable to change such things with a nice GUI interface but this still needs to be written.
Hi, sorry I didn't try it before.
Unfortunately it seems there is no ui_editor_menu.xml in the branch, so geany segfaults while trying to open it. Maybe I forgot something here ?
As for the idea, I too think a dedicated UI would be useful for many users but an editable XML file seems fine too.
Regards, Enrico
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:17:06 +0200, Jean-Philippe skateinmars@skateinmars.net wrote:
As a Geany user I'd be happy about such a way to customize the toolbar/menus as it is also possible in a similar way (mostly using libglade) in many other apps. But I'm also aware that it is often more comfortable to change such things with a nice GUI interface but this still needs to be written.
Hi, sorry I didn't try it before.
Unfortunately it seems there is no ui_editor_menu.xml in the branch, so geany segfaults while trying to open it. Maybe I forgot something here ?
No, I forgot to check in the UI definition file. Sorry. Now it's in the SVN repository and should work. The segfault when starting Geany without this file is known but I just didn't work on that as long as we don't know whether we'll use this code. It's not a big deal to fix but it's one of the last steps.
Regards, Enrico
Enrico Tröger a écrit :
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:17:06 +0200, Jean-Philippe skateinmars@skateinmars.net wrote:
As a Geany user I'd be happy about such a way to customize the toolbar/menus as it is also possible in a similar way (mostly using libglade) in many other apps. But I'm also aware that it is often more comfortable to change such things with a nice GUI interface but this still needs to be written.
Hi, sorry I didn't try it before.
Unfortunately it seems there is no ui_editor_menu.xml in the branch, so geany segfaults while trying to open it. Maybe I forgot something here ?
No, I forgot to check in the UI definition file. Sorry. Now it's in the SVN repository and should work. The segfault when starting Geany without this file is known but I just didn't work on that as long as we don't know whether we'll use this code. It's not a big deal to fix but it's one of the last steps.
All right, I gave it a shot, considering the "proof of concept" state.
The XML idea seems fine but there are obvious issues like creating submenus and personalized actions, which only seems possible by editing ui_manager.c. However, I was successfully able to add an "Insert" menu and pu the insert menus in it with my pitiful C skills and it only broke the "dummy" insert submenus :-). So it seems plugins may easily add menu actions with this system. As for the format itself I don't really understand the need for an <ui> root node as only one <popup> node is used but it may be a GtkUIManager convention. Currently geany uses the system ui_editor_menu.xml when the user one is not well-formed, maybe a warning should be also raised.
Indeed a GUI could be used to create menus/submenus and actions (which could be nice to clean the date insertion menu for example) but it seems there would be a lot of work for something that maybe would not be used by many people.
As for the keybindings accelerators they work fine here (Ubuntu 8.04 with GTK+ 2.12.9, GLib 2.16.4), they show up and I can access the corresponding menu/action with my keyboard.
So, in the end, I think it is up to you devs :-) Maybe the amount of work required to implement this feature in a clean manner is not worth the added improvements. Anyway, thanks a lot for the work provided Enrico !
Regards, Enrico
On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:29:42 +0200, Jean-Philippe skateinmars@skateinmars.net wrote:
Enrico Tröger a écrit :
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:17:06 +0200, Jean-Philippe skateinmars@skateinmars.net wrote:
As a Geany user I'd be happy about such a way to customize the toolbar/menus as it is also possible in a similar way (mostly using libglade) in many other apps. But I'm also aware that it is often more comfortable to change such things with a nice GUI interface but this still needs to be written.
Hi, sorry I didn't try it before.
Unfortunately it seems there is no ui_editor_menu.xml in the branch, so geany segfaults while trying to open it. Maybe I forgot something here ?
No, I forgot to check in the UI definition file. Sorry. Now it's in the SVN repository and should work. The segfault when starting Geany without this file is known but I just didn't work on that as long as we don't know whether we'll use this code. It's not a big deal to fix but it's one of the last steps.
All right, I gave it a shot, considering the "proof of concept" state.
The XML idea seems fine but there are obvious issues like creating submenus and personalized actions, which only seems possible by editing ui_manager.c. However, I was successfully able to add an "Insert" menu and pu the insert menus in it with my pitiful C skills
When you want to change the menus and accept recompiling the source code, you can do this currently much more comfortable with glade (= 2.10). But I think when making the GUI more user-configurable recompiling the source is a no-go.
and it only broke the "dummy" insert submenus :-). So it seems plugins may easily add menu actions with this system. As for the
Well, for plugins it is easier to add menu items with the current way of the implementation.
format itself I don't really understand the need for an <ui> root node as only one <popup> node is used but it may be a GtkUIManager
It is a GtkUIManager convention (not 100% sure but I think so, if in doubt, read the DTD, it's specified in the API docs :D)
convention. Currently geany uses the system ui_editor_menu.xml when the user one is not well-formed, maybe a warning should be also raised.
Yes, good idea.
As for the keybindings accelerators they work fine here (Ubuntu 8.04 with GTK+ 2.12.9, GLib 2.16.4), they show up and I can access the corresponding menu/action with my keyboard.
Hmm strange. But after all, this isn't a big issue IMO.
Regards, Enrico
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:48:39 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
I use especially Goto Definition and Find usage very often as it's just convenient but with the new submenu they got hard to reach.
Can anyone confirm this?
Personally I just use keybindings. I thought it was good to group all
Me not, not for Find usage and Goto Tag Defintion.
Me too, I am very miss Find usage and Goto Tag Defintion.
Submenu makes popup menu almost useless for me. Too hard to reach.
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:47:31 +0300 Yura Siamashka yurand2@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:48:39 +0200 Enrico Tröger enrico.troeger@uvena.de wrote:
I use especially Goto Definition and Find usage very often as it's just convenient but with the new submenu they got hard to reach.
Can anyone confirm this?
Personally I just use keybindings. I thought it was good to group all
Me not, not for Find usage and Goto Tag Defintion.
Me too, I am very miss Find usage and Goto Tag Defintion.
Submenu makes popup menu almost useless for me. Too hard to reach.
OK, well I don't mind reverting it. I'll probably do this in the next few days.
Regards, Nick