On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:19:05 -0800 Matthew Brush mbrush@codebrainz.ca wrote:
They definitively won't with all this completely counter-productive hating on the library we use, holding back any type of useful progress so you can vent your frustrations about something that is completely outside of our control.
I don't like regressions, be it in Glade, Scintilla or GTK+, or any other software. What is so strange about it? With too many of them, I start considering something entirely different - isn't that normal? The sad thing is, none of these are Geany's fault.
Lots of users actually *want* Geany to move to Gtk3, for various reasons such as using the same theme as the rest of their desktop (see what Gtk version the top 3 Linux distros are using) or to get better/any Wayland or support, or for various other reasons.
What stops them from using Geany with gtk+3? What do you mean by "move to gtk+3" - drop gtk+2 ASAP? Why not let the package maintainers for the different distributions decide whether to build Geany for 2 or 3?
So they shouldn't get proper support for their environment because you hate change, refuse to acknowledge the inevitable and want to stick to a deprecated version of our toolkit for a couple more years until it's completely dead and gone and we are left with a big crusty hairball of obsolete, unmaintainable source with more #ifdef's than actual lines of code?
"hate change"? :) I'm considering KDE, which is a much bigger switch. It would have been nice to have Geany for some more time, but I have absolutely no idea how long gtk+2 will be supported.
As of the "inevitable" - every bad thing is inevitable, unless there are enough people to oppose it. If there aren't, OK, free software is all about choice.
What does Scope do that it needs hard-core low-level speed for?
The message loop and processing.
So you profiled it and found that the message loop was too slow and that your "processing" was a big bottleneck?
Do I really need to write a python variant of source_dispatch() and on_editor_notify() to see that it'll slow everything down to a crawl? C'mon. :) I program in python since some time now, have an idea about it's speed, and one of the things I like about it is ctypes.
Or the other plugins?
Nothing. After the rectangular selection was rewritten in Scintilla 2.x, it became so slow than even a shell script will not make any difference.
Scintilla openly accepts patches :)
I don't doubt about it. :) But it was _properly_ rewritten, and the new rectangular selection shares a lot with the multiply selection. Any rectangle larger than 10k lines (or 20k, if you have a high level customer CPU) is slow by design, it's not a bug. After I had short discussion with one of the developers, 2.xy was somewhat improved, but it hit the design limit.
FWIW, I'm not actually advocating that Gtk3 is better than Gtk2, I'm advocating it doesn't change the fact that, for better or worse, Gtk3 is the current version of our toolkit library (for quite some time now) and complaining about it won't change anything.
Perhaps you missed my mail from Nov 14 in the "Gtk2 vs Gtk3" thread, it contains exact percents of how current gtk+3 is, and how the gtk+ packages dropped overall big time.
But with all that said, you are right that such a discussion will lead us nowhere. I'll read your answer, if there is any, and that'll be it. Hopefully it'll contain some directions as to when Geany is going gtk+3 only. The "Gtk2 vs Gtk3" percents may be a good starting point.