> I'm willing to write a plugin dedicated specifically to this feature provided I have minimal assurances it will be addressed by devs within a reasonable time frame.
Thats not really assurable for a project with all volunteer contributors who do not have scheduled guaranteed time available to address any Geany effort. All devs have very little time, and will spend it on things they are interested in adding, they would have to volunteer themselves that they are interested and if they have time available. And several devs have not been heard from for some time, in the current world I hope they are ok.
> I apologize for likely coming across as antagonistic about this. This is a sore spot for me.
No need to apologise, nothing was taken personally, and as you said next, the disagreement is about the _idea_ not individuals.
> I wanted to provide users with the option to be able to unconditionally hide the menu bar on startup (the default would be have been to restore the previous state from shutdown), but devs appeared to unconditionally reject allowing users to have this choice.
Correct, because although some may like them, providing options that can cause problems for other users may be a net loss for the overall Geany ecosystem and so some options are not accepted until they can be reasonably protected. Since it might be somewhat obscured from the looooong discussion on #2972 let me explain.
The issue with the unconditional hide on startup is that so far the PR has no unconditional and documentable way of reversing that. So someone inexperienced, trying stuff out, can suddenly find themselves without a menu, and no discoverable way of getting it back to reverse the setting.
Whilst Geany is not exactly a beginners tool, it does try not to set traps (at least not ones it knows about). That is also why the toggle menu keybinding is required to be unbound by default, so fumble fingers can't trigger it without users having to choose a binding, ie having to opt-in.
This is the same as vscode where the hide menubar item is unbound by default and in any case the menubar can be made visible by (AFAIK) fixed key `ALT`.
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I apologize for likely coming across as antagonistic about this. This is a sore spot for me. I feel that I made reasonable attempts to address core dev concerns. Yet it seems we have fundamental differences of opinions regarding providing users with *options*. I wanted to provide users with the *option* to be able to unconditionally hide the menu bar on startup (the *default* would be have been to restore the previous state from shutdown), but devs *appeared* to unconditionally reject this.
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> Regardless, I now believe the feature would be better implemented as a plugin.
>
> > Agree
I'm willing to write a plugin dedicated specifically to this feature provided I have minimal assurances it will be addressed by devs withing a reasonable time frame. (reasonable = I'm flexible. Give me a timeline and stick to it. It can be years if that's all that can be managed, as long as I am told ahead of time that it hasn't been forgotten.) The code has pretty much already been written.
> For now, it can be done with the GeanyLua plugin.
> > Yes thats the simplest solution for users who want the capability whilst that plugin continues to work.
I have personally attempted to keep that plugin working, partially because of this feature. Progress wasn't as fast as I would have preferred, but I believe I was successful.
> >But Geanylua has no maintainer (although it gets occasional contributions), and depends on an old version of Lua, so no idea how long it will last.
Something to deal with when it comes to pass...
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> > Well, thats what happens when all requests for changes are rejected.
> I did make changes to address the purported concerns.
Ok, I withdraw "all", but note that some changes were still not addressed as you yourself said.
> Regardless, I now believe the feature would be better implemented as a plugin.
[Agree](https://github.com/geany/geany/pull/2972#issuecomment-960356584)
> That way core geany devs get what they want (that the feature not be part of geany)
Nonetheless some devs did engage with #2972 and try to have it address their concerns, but as you said, you would not accept some of the requested changes (which is your right), so the PR was not merged (which is their right). Somebody else could of course provide a PR that addressed the devs concerns.
> For now, it can be done with the GeanyLua plugin.
Yes thats the simplest solution for users who want the capability whilst that plugin continues to work.
But Geanylua has no maintainer (although it gets occasional contributions), and depends on an old version of Lua, so no idea how long it will last.
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@asoymos
> I would also prefer that the state is preserved
If I recall, that was provided as a user-selectable option, with the default to preserve state.
> No 'View' menu option instead 'Hide/Show menu bar' and 'preserve state' preferences with a note that a keyboard shorcut could be set.
I have no problem with that, and believe it is already partially implemented in that PR. But, that PR is *dead*. I now believe that this feature would be better provided as a plugin. For now, it can be done with the GeanyLua plugin.
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> Well, thats what happens when all requests for changes are rejected.
I made changes to address the purported concerns.
> the unconditional "hide on startup" instead of the usual "restore whatever the state was when shutdown" that all other UI settings have
Unconditional hide on startup was provided as an *option*. The default was to restore state. That wasn't good enough. Devs didn't want the option to be present at all. This is the only point I was unwilling to compromise on, that the *option* remain.
Everything else you mention is easily resolved. For instance, Ctrl+M is commonly used across many applications to hide/show the menubar and could be listed in the manual.
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> You, yourself, participated in discussion in that PR.
So? That doesn't mean I remember it, thats why I searched.
> I closed the PR because we had reached an impasse that made it highly unlikely that the PR would be accepted.
Well, thats what happens when all requests for changes are rejected.
I just re-skimmed it and those involved seem to be trying to address the concerns they have so it _can_ be accepted. But the sticking points seem to be:
1. the unconditional "hide on startup" instead of the usual "restore whatever the state was when shutdown" that all other UI settings have, and
2. the lack of a fixed documentable method to bring the menubar back.
A user settable keybinding can't be documented as the manual doesn't know what the user set it to, and unfortunately mnemonics don't work when the menubar is hidden, and no alternative was suggested AFAICT. I guess an item could be added to the right click menu if the main menu is hidden, but nobody thought of it at the time.
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I would also prefer that the state is preserved, but this could be an informed preference. No 'View' menu option instead 'Hide/Show menu bar' and 'preserve state' preferences with a note that a keyboard shorcut could be set. What do you think @xiota?
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@elextr
You, yourself, participated in discussion in that PR.
I closed the PR because we had reached an impasse that made it highly unlikely that the PR would be accepted.
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> See https://github.com/geany/geany/pull/2972 and https://github.com/geany/geany-plugins/pull/1138.
Oh well, #2972 didn't show in my search because it is closed, and I didn't look for plugins.
> Core Geany devs appear to simply not want menubar hiding to be included in Geany.
_Most_ don't, so clearly those are not going to work on it, and since the PR was only open for a month none of those who might accept it had time to look at it. (I guess its Murphys law that the ones who might accept it are those with least time available for Geany :-)
Not sure what the availability of the plugin collection maintainer is, but I'm sure its not great, so if nobody else tried, tested, and supported the plugin it is likely they didn't spend any effort on it.
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