[Geany-i18n] I18n Digest, Vol 75, Issue 2
André Glória
gloria.andre at xxxxx
Sat Jan 16 19:53:02 UTC 2016
Hello,
I just want to give you my 2 cents on this discussion.
I agree with you, proper names should never be translated. And those
examples are quite good, Geany, MS Word, LibreOffice, etc.
In this plugin's particular case I would never translated "Bird's Eye" but
I would say that since it is called "Overview" it should. My reasoning is
the following, the former name does not really imply the plugin's
functionality while the latter is more of its function/action than its name.
And if you look at other Geany's plugins I would say that this is their
main idea also, GeanyPy is a name but "Split Window" is a function/action.
Ultimately you have to assume that the translation is made to help people
that have zero knowledge on the original's program language, and therefore
the more you translate the better. While translating a name like "Geany
"does not give you any benefits (imho), translating a function/action does.
Off course you could argue that at least in Geany's case the plugins are
presented on a list with a succinct description right under their name
which could make translating their "name" irrelevant. I would agree with
such argument but I would still stand by the fact that if the plugin's name
is more of its function/action than a name per se it still brings more
value to translated than not.
Kind regards,
André
2016-01-16 9:00 GMT+00:00 <i18n-request lists.geany.org>:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
> (Matthew Brush)
> 2. Re: Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
> (Yan Pashkovskiy)
> 3. Re: Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
> (Matthew Brush)
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem reencaminhada ----------
> From: Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
> To: i18n lists.geany.org
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 06:56:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Geany-i18n] Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
> On 2016-01-15 12:48 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:
>
>> I was talking about View - Show overview. If this string was
>> untranslated - it was hard to understand what is it. Plugin name
>> should be translateable too imho.
>>
>>
> Mostly I was just wondering why it should be translated in some places and
> not in others. Looking at other plugins, it seems to be a mix of plugin
> names being translated or not. I was previously under the impression that
> proper names weren't to be translated, for example how plugin author names
> aren't translated. Is the rule that you only translate names of things but
> not people?
>
> I guess an example would be 'Geany', does it get translated as well?
> Something with meaning of 'magic man who comes out of bottle'? If Geany
> doesn't get translated, would 'Overview' be translated if it's name was
> 'Goverview'? What about 'GeanyPy', would it be translated as 'Snake of the
> editor' or something?
>
> Apologies if these are stupid questions, I just want to understand as I
> only speak English and French. In Canadian English and French I don't think
> proper names of things get translated (although people's names sometimes
> are - my name sometimes becomes Mathieu). But, for example, 'Hitachi'
> company name is not translated to 'Sunrise' in English, and 'Apple'
> computer name is not translated to 'Pomme' in French here.
>
> I don't care either way, I just want to know what rule to consistently
> apply to my plugins' names, if possible.
>
> Cheers,
> Matthew Brush
>
> As for Russian language: I don't know whether name should be
>> capitalized or not (grammar rules say that shouldn't, but it is
>> plugin name!). I just think it shouldn't be more than 20 symbols:
>> "карта документа", "обзор документа" are valid, but "показать обзор
>> документа" not (show document overview). And I also think that
>> "затемнение" is definitely bad l10n :)
>>
>> Regards, Yan
>>
>>
>> 15 янв. 2016 г., в 11:22, Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
>>> написал(а):
>>>
>>> On 2016-01-14 7:25 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In Russian writing "Обзор Документа" is incorrect - it should be
>>>> "Обзор документа"
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yan Pashkovsky <yanpaso gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Oh, I've forgot to mention original naming, it is "затемнение". How can
>>>>> I participate in renaming? I may provide git patch of ru.po (or just
>>>>> new
>>>>> .po file)
>>>>> By the way are there any plans to move to transifex or launchpad
>>>>> translations? :) Seems to be handy tools
>>>>>
>>>>> 15.01.2016 01:34, Frank Lanitz пишет:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14.01.2016 23:22, Yan Pashkovsky wrote:
>>>>>>> High everybody!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Overview plugin in russian l18n should be translated to "Обзор
>>>>>>> Документа" or like in Notepad++ "Карта документа" (document map).
>>>>>>> Currently it means eclipse, which is weird
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a native, but somehow I like Обзор Документа more -- sounds nice
>>>>>> ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> Is it customary to translate the "proper name" of a piece of software?
>>>
>>> I figured it wasn't so I didn't mark the plugin name as translatable,
>>> but I see a few places in the UI file where I used it as a proper name but
>>> neglected to correctly capitalize it (I guess that's where the strings in
>>> question come from?)
>>>
>>> Should I mark the plugin name as translatable?
>>>
>>> Also, is it worthwhile to fix the capitalization in the English UI
>>> strings?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Matthew Brush
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I18n mailing list
>>> I18n lists.geany.org
>>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I18n mailing list
>> I18n lists.geany.org
>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem reencaminhada ----------
> From: Yan Pashkovskiy <yanpaso gmail.com>
> To: Geany translations mailing list <i18n lists.geany.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 20:21:37 +0300
> Subject: Re: [Geany-i18n] Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
> I see it like this: unique things, such as MS Word shouldn't be
> translated, and common things like "find and replace" should.
> Overview is not unique (np++, sublime) and users will only suffer from
> incorrect translation or missing of translation. By the way overview is
> common English word, it's not a brand. Currently translation exists and it
> is incorrect.
>
>
> > 15 янв. 2016 г., в 17:56, Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
> написал(а):
> >
> >> On 2016-01-15 12:48 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:
> >> I was talking about View - Show overview. If this string was
> >> untranslated - it was hard to understand what is it. Plugin name
> >> should be translateable too imho.
> >
> > Mostly I was just wondering why it should be translated in some places
> and not in others. Looking at other plugins, it seems to be a mix of plugin
> names being translated or not. I was previously under the impression that
> proper names weren't to be translated, for example how plugin author names
> aren't translated. Is the rule that you only translate names of things but
> not people?
> >
> > I guess an example would be 'Geany', does it get translated as well?
> Something with meaning of 'magic man who comes out of bottle'? If Geany
> doesn't get translated, would 'Overview' be translated if it's name was
> 'Goverview'? What about 'GeanyPy', would it be translated as 'Snake of the
> editor' or something?
> >
> > Apologies if these are stupid questions, I just want to understand as I
> only speak English and French. In Canadian English and French I don't think
> proper names of things get translated (although people's names sometimes
> are - my name sometimes becomes Mathieu). But, for example, 'Hitachi'
> company name is not translated to 'Sunrise' in English, and 'Apple'
> computer name is not translated to 'Pomme' in French here.
> >
> > I don't care either way, I just want to know what rule to consistently
> apply to my plugins' names, if possible.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Matthew Brush
> >
> >> As for Russian language: I don't know whether name should be
> >> capitalized or not (grammar rules say that shouldn't, but it is
> >> plugin name!). I just think it shouldn't be more than 20 symbols:
> >> "карта документа", "обзор документа" are valid, but "показать обзор
> >> документа" not (show document overview). And I also think that
> >> "затемнение" is definitely bad l10n :)
> >>
> >> Regards, Yan
> >>
> >>
> >>>> 15 янв. 2016 г., в 11:22, Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
> написал(а):
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2016-01-14 7:25 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> In Russian writing "Обзор Документа" is incorrect - it should be
> >>>> "Обзор документа"
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yan Pashkovsky <yanpaso gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> Oh, I've forgot to mention original naming, it is "затемнение". How
> can
> >>>>> I participate in renaming? I may provide git patch of ru.po (or just
> new
> >>>>> .po file)
> >>>>> By the way are there any plans to move to transifex or launchpad
> >>>>> translations? :) Seems to be handy tools
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 15.01.2016 01:34, Frank Lanitz пишет:
> >>>>>>> On 14.01.2016 23:22, Yan Pashkovsky wrote:
> >>>>>>> High everybody!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Overview plugin in russian l18n should be translated to "Обзор
> >>>>>>> Документа" or like in Notepad++ "Карта документа" (document map).
> >>>>>>> Currently it means eclipse, which is weird
> >>>>>> Not a native, but somehow I like Обзор Документа more -- sounds
> nice ;)
> >>>
> >>> Is it customary to translate the "proper name" of a piece of software?
> >>>
> >>> I figured it wasn't so I didn't mark the plugin name as translatable,
> but I see a few places in the UI file where I used it as a proper name but
> neglected to correctly capitalize it (I guess that's where the strings in
> question come from?)
> >>>
> >>> Should I mark the plugin name as translatable?
> >>>
> >>> Also, is it worthwhile to fix the capitalization in the English UI
> strings?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Matthew Brush
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> I18n mailing list
> >>> I18n lists.geany.org
> >>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> I18n mailing list
> >> I18n lists.geany.org
> >> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > I18n mailing list
> > I18n lists.geany.org
> > https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem reencaminhada ----------
> From: Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
> To: i18n lists.geany.org
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 16:56:35 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Geany-i18n] Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
> On 2016-01-15 9:21 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:
>
>> I see it like this: unique things, such as MS Word shouldn't be
>> translated, and common things like "find and replace" should.
>> Overview is not unique (np++, sublime) and users will only suffer from
>> incorrect translation or missing of translation. By the way overview is
>> common English word, it's not a brand. Currently translation exists and it
>> is incorrect.
>>
>>
> Hmm, OK. But I guess MS Word isn't unique either, for example there's
> LibreOffice Writer which does the same thing but has a different name.
> Similarly, I don't think NP++ or Sublime call their minimap "Overview". The
> original name of the plugin was "Bird's Eye" (as in "Bird's Eye View"), but
> someone suggested the name "Overview", and I liked it, so I changed it.
>
> Anyway, I guess there's no solid rules to follow in natural languages :)
>
> If anyone wants to let me know if I should mark any of my plugins' names
> for translation and I'd happily do it, that way it will show up with a more
> meaningful name in the Plugin Manager dialog. Right now it looks like some
> plugins do this and some don't.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Cheers,
> Matthew Brush
>
>
>> 15 янв. 2016 г., в 17:56, Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
>>> написал(а):
>>>
>>> On 2016-01-15 12:48 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:
>>>> I was talking about View - Show overview. If this string was
>>>> untranslated - it was hard to understand what is it. Plugin name
>>>> should be translateable too imho.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mostly I was just wondering why it should be translated in some places
>>> and not in others. Looking at other plugins, it seems to be a mix of plugin
>>> names being translated or not. I was previously under the impression that
>>> proper names weren't to be translated, for example how plugin author names
>>> aren't translated. Is the rule that you only translate names of things but
>>> not people?
>>>
>>> I guess an example would be 'Geany', does it get translated as well?
>>> Something with meaning of 'magic man who comes out of bottle'? If Geany
>>> doesn't get translated, would 'Overview' be translated if it's name was
>>> 'Goverview'? What about 'GeanyPy', would it be translated as 'Snake of the
>>> editor' or something?
>>>
>>> Apologies if these are stupid questions, I just want to understand as I
>>> only speak English and French. In Canadian English and French I don't think
>>> proper names of things get translated (although people's names sometimes
>>> are - my name sometimes becomes Mathieu). But, for example, 'Hitachi'
>>> company name is not translated to 'Sunrise' in English, and 'Apple'
>>> computer name is not translated to 'Pomme' in French here.
>>>
>>> I don't care either way, I just want to know what rule to consistently
>>> apply to my plugins' names, if possible.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Matthew Brush
>>>
>>> As for Russian language: I don't know whether name should be
>>>> capitalized or not (grammar rules say that shouldn't, but it is
>>>> plugin name!). I just think it shouldn't be more than 20 symbols:
>>>> "карта документа", "обзор документа" are valid, but "показать обзор
>>>> документа" not (show document overview). And I also think that
>>>> "затемнение" is definitely bad l10n :)
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Yan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15 янв. 2016 г., в 11:22, Matthew Brush <mbrush codebrainz.ca>
>>>>>> написал(а):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-01-14 7:25 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Russian writing "Обзор Документа" is incorrect - it should be
>>>>>> "Обзор документа"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yan Pashkovsky <yanpaso gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oh, I've forgot to mention original naming, it is "затемнение". How
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> I participate in renaming? I may provide git patch of ru.po (or just
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> .po file)
>>>>>>> By the way are there any plans to move to transifex or launchpad
>>>>>>> translations? :) Seems to be handy tools
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 15.01.2016 01:34, Frank Lanitz пишет:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 14.01.2016 23:22, Yan Pashkovsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> High everybody!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Overview plugin in russian l18n should be translated to "Обзор
>>>>>>>>> Документа" or like in Notepad++ "Карта документа" (document map).
>>>>>>>>> Currently it means eclipse, which is weird
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not a native, but somehow I like Обзор Документа more -- sounds
>>>>>>>> nice ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> Is it customary to translate the "proper name" of a piece of software?
>>>>>
>>>>> I figured it wasn't so I didn't mark the plugin name as translatable,
>>>>> but I see a few places in the UI file where I used it as a proper name but
>>>>> neglected to correctly capitalize it (I guess that's where the strings in
>>>>> question come from?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I mark the plugin name as translatable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, is it worthwhile to fix the capitalization in the English UI
>>>>> strings?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Matthew Brush
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> I18n mailing list
>>>>> I18n lists.geany.org
>>>>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> I18n mailing list
>>>> I18n lists.geany.org
>>>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I18n mailing list
>>> I18n lists.geany.org
>>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I18n mailing list
>> I18n lists.geany.org
>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> I18n mailing list
> I18n lists.geany.org
> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
>
>
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