[Geany-i18n] Geany-i18n Digest, Vol 27, Issue 23

"Jože Klepec" joze.klepec at xxxxx
Wed Jun 23 21:51:52 UTC 2010

  Na 21. 06. 2010 14:39, André Glória je pisal:
>     I'm very happy that someone else started translating this awkward
>     text file. 
> Lol,
I lolrwotf?
> i've read a little about reStructuredText from some quick tutorial I 
> found on the web and found it, not that hard to understand. For now, 
> only the underlines are a little boring to get right...
Indeed, if so, paste a link kindly - is it under EULA or what? Or is it 
locked? :)
>     As the matter of fact, I stopped working on this file for now
>     (since Thunderbird 3.0.5 project was finally done with my friends
>     as the date, if you look for one).
>     I even threw away all my work - as I thought it's worthless.
>     Finally, I think that everyone should take into account that we
>     have on Earth around 6700 natural languages (not to count
>     esperanto and all alike).
> You're quitting? :(  Why? I can see the effort required for this but 
> don't believe it to be meaningless.
Partially correct - temporarily leaving it at the sideway (I said: 
stopped working FOR NOW, that doesn't mean that it will done ad Calendas 
Graecas). And if I threw sth away, I threw away  it as it was badly done.
And, at last, but not least, you most likely you forgot the essence: 
this (Geany) is a volunteer project, I'm not forced into it and I live 
in free country (well, freedom can be talked about).

>     So, we need to agree that essential part or survival guide in help
>     must be left UNTRANSLATED (=in English?). Behind that Survival
>     part/Quick guide (containing quick and very brief guide around
>     menus, plugins and so forth), the it comes all about in your
>     mothers, fathers or another spoken/written language.
>     That's what I think about the help and what it should be like.  :)
> I disagree.
I do not. In programming, English is common language, some sort one of 
seven modern Latins (Arab, Chinese, English, Hindu, Japanese, 
Portuguese, Russian are top used languages in modern world I know), so 
there is a need to keep a part of documentation in it. It may be even 
more languages if we limit to number ten.
> It's obvious that the documentation (and even Geany itself) will 
> hardly be translated to the 6700 existing languages you refer.
> But that argument is also valid to Geany's interface...yet there are 
> translations for it.
> IMHO, if a user sees that Geany is available in Portuguese (has an 
> example) and he wants to use it in Portuguese, I doubt he will like to 
> click a menu and start seeing things in English.
Correct, but most likely you forgot the essence: this is volunteer 
project. It feeds itself from power and work of ourselves.
And to correct myself: of those 6700 languages, around 10 to 5% are 
extinct each year (UN official data, not just airpicked out of 
somewhere!). Most of those languages are small, with several thousands 
or some of them even counting less then ten speakers. So Geany won't be 
translated to all of them, no way! Because the big 7 will eat them in 
melting pot. And finally, they'll eat each other. :)
> He may not even know any english...
This is true, but ... . If someone has finished gymnasium or university 
in Europe, this is a very sad fact (English is one of EU's official 
languages). Well, we can argue about that and tell stories, but brute 
fact is that you need really ought to know at least a bit of English if 
you are serious about using computers. Speaking any language of those 
mentionted 6700.

> So having the interface
Mostly the UI is useful as help itself and selfexplanatory and it should 
be in 90% to 95%. If UI is translated very good and thoroughly, then 
there is almost no need to translate docs. I suggest you that you debate 
over and over every word that you translate in UI and help suggestions 
with colleagues, on Portuguese localization lists, anywhere with anybody.

A useful suggestion might drop even from another translator, translating 
for another project or at the same project for another language team. I 
sometimes look at Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian, Czech, Russian, Slovak 
(also German, Swedish, ... bla asaxon) and some other translations 
(works at TB, Geany & other) to compare for "hints" and history if I 
feel unsure or nobody from Slovenia has no useful ideas.

Translators are very prone to borrow words between languages. So I 
suggest you to look in other Portuguese translations, Spanish and so on. 
You could even find something useful in Latin America, if you feel 
unsure. In the end, you may find help in French and similar translations.
> and documentation
The translated documentation is for the "squeezers", for users who want 
the best of their program.
> in Portuguese will help a lot.
> That said, I can't see why is there a need to not translate something...
I said urgent core help needs to be international. If you overvote 
English users, that's fine with me. But I'll not agree that seleçao wins 
that game, no way. Of course they should beet English, anytime they meet.
> Out of curiosity is it hard to make F1 point to the correct help file 
> according to Geany's localization?  (From a developer point of view)
No hard fun. From developers point of view, you only need to assign 
MenuitemID+LangID for each menuitem triplet("0000","en","File"; 
"0001","de","Datei";.... and so on and on) and process this in a switch, 
using LangID, seeking for MenuitemID in appropriate file. As the matter 
of fact, you already know language setting from locale setting, but this 
is not always true and completely correct setting as people may have 
installed OS in en_US, but use translated programs.

So you need to pick settings elsewhere - keyboard, for instance, is the 
most sure setting (you could have several keyboard settings installed, 
then you should accept system default setting and explain the essence of 
setting correct setting.

Or, you could select language (and fallback laguage) directly in Options 
(like most of KDE programs have such option). With this option, you do 
not select help language, but it would be nice to. This could be 
achieved by using remote help files or having installed multiple 
languages or by installing any help file by users choice (by providing URI).

For HTML/XML, you could even have the complete help in a single file 
(both could contain scripts).

> Kind Regards,
> André


P.S. Updated sl.po, of course.
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