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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
      (Matthew Brush)
   2. Re: Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
      (Yan Pashkovskiy)
   3. Re: Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
      (Matthew Brush)


---------- Mensagem reencaminhada ----------
From: Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca>
To: i18n@lists.geany.org
Cc: 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 06:56:44 -0800
Subject: Re: [Geany-i18n] Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
On 2016-01-15 12:48 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:

I was talking about View - Show overview. If this string was
untranslated - it was hard to understand what is it. Plugin name
should be translateable too imho.

Mostly I was just wondering why it should be translated in some places and not in others. Looking at other plugins, it seems to be a mix of plugin names being translated or not. I was previously under the impression that proper names weren't to be translated, for example how plugin author names aren't translated. Is the rule that you only translate names of things but not people?

I guess an example would be 'Geany', does it get translated as well? Something with meaning of 'magic man who comes out of bottle'? If Geany doesn't get translated, would 'Overview' be translated if it's name was 'Goverview'? What about 'GeanyPy', would it be translated as 'Snake of the editor' or something?

Apologies if these are stupid questions, I just want to understand as I only speak English and French. In Canadian English and French I don't think proper names of things get translated (although people's names sometimes are - my name sometimes becomes Mathieu). But, for example, 'Hitachi' company name is not translated to 'Sunrise' in English, and 'Apple' computer name is not translated to 'Pomme' in French here.

I don't care either way, I just want to know what rule to consistently apply to my plugins' names, if possible.

Cheers,
Matthew Brush

As for Russian language: I don't know whether name should be
capitalized or not (grammar rules say that shouldn't, but it is
plugin name!). I just think it shouldn't be more than 20 symbols:
"карта документа", "обзор документа" are valid, but "показать обзор
документа" not (show document overview). And I also think that
"затемнение" is definitely bad l10n  :)

Regards, Yan

15 янв. 2016 г., в 11:22, Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca> написал(а):

On 2016-01-14 7:25 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov wrote:
Hi,

In Russian writing "Обзор Документа" is incorrect - it should be
"Обзор документа"

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yan Pashkovsky <yanpaso@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, I've forgot to mention original naming, it is "затемнение". How can
I participate in renaming? I may provide git patch of ru.po (or just new
.po file)
By the way are there any plans to move to transifex or launchpad
translations? :) Seems to be handy tools

15.01.2016 01:34, Frank Lanitz пишет:

On 14.01.2016 23:22, Yan Pashkovsky wrote:
High everybody!

Overview plugin in russian l18n should be translated to "Обзор
Документа" or like in Notepad++ "Карта документа" (document map).
Currently it means eclipse, which is weird

Not a native, but somehow I like Обзор Документа  more -- sounds nice ;)

Is it customary to translate the "proper name" of a piece of software?

I figured it wasn't so I didn't mark the plugin name as translatable, but I see a few places in the UI file where I used it as a proper name but neglected to correctly capitalize it (I guess that's where the strings in question come from?)

Should I mark the plugin name as translatable?

Also, is it worthwhile to fix the capitalization in the English UI strings?

Cheers,
Matthew Brush
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---------- Mensagem reencaminhada ----------
From: Yan Pashkovskiy <yanpaso@gmail.com>
To: Geany translations mailing list <i18n@lists.geany.org>
Cc: 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 20:21:37 +0300
Subject: Re: [Geany-i18n] Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
I see it like this: unique things, such as MS Word shouldn't be translated, and common things like "find and replace" should.
Overview is not unique (np++, sublime) and users will only suffer from incorrect translation or missing of translation. By the way overview is common English word, it's not a brand. Currently translation exists and it is incorrect.


> 15 янв. 2016 г., в 17:56, Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca> написал(а):
>
>> On 2016-01-15 12:48 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:
>> I was talking about View - Show overview. If this string was
>> untranslated - it was hard to understand what is it. Plugin name
>> should be translateable too imho.
>
> Mostly I was just wondering why it should be translated in some places and not in others. Looking at other plugins, it seems to be a mix of plugin names being translated or not. I was previously under the impression that proper names weren't to be translated, for example how plugin author names aren't translated. Is the rule that you only translate names of things but not people?
>
> I guess an example would be 'Geany', does it get translated as well? Something with meaning of 'magic man who comes out of bottle'? If Geany doesn't get translated, would 'Overview' be translated if it's name was 'Goverview'? What about 'GeanyPy', would it be translated as 'Snake of the editor' or something?
>
> Apologies if these are stupid questions, I just want to understand as I only speak English and French. In Canadian English and French I don't think proper names of things get translated (although people's names sometimes are - my name sometimes becomes Mathieu). But, for example, 'Hitachi' company name is not translated to 'Sunrise' in English, and 'Apple' computer name is not translated to 'Pomme' in French here.
>
> I don't care either way, I just want to know what rule to consistently apply to my plugins' names, if possible.
>
> Cheers,
> Matthew Brush
>
>> As for Russian language: I don't know whether name should be
>> capitalized or not (grammar rules say that shouldn't, but it is
>> plugin name!). I just think it shouldn't be more than 20 symbols:
>> "карта документа", "обзор документа" are valid, but "показать обзор
>> документа" not (show document overview). And I also think that
>> "затемнение" is definitely bad l10n  :)
>>
>> Regards, Yan
>>
>>
>>>> 15 янв. 2016 г., в 11:22, Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca> написал(а):
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-01-14 7:25 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In Russian writing "Обзор Документа" is incorrect - it should be
>>>> "Обзор документа"
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yan Pashkovsky <yanpaso@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oh, I've forgot to mention original naming, it is "затемнение". How can
>>>>> I participate in renaming? I may provide git patch of ru.po (or just new
>>>>> .po file)
>>>>> By the way are there any plans to move to transifex or launchpad
>>>>> translations? :) Seems to be handy tools
>>>>>
>>>>> 15.01.2016 01:34, Frank Lanitz пишет:
>>>>>>> On 14.01.2016 23:22, Yan Pashkovsky wrote:
>>>>>>> High everybody!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Overview plugin in russian l18n should be translated to "Обзор
>>>>>>> Документа" or like in Notepad++ "Карта документа" (document map).
>>>>>>> Currently it means eclipse, which is weird
>>>>>> Not a native, but somehow I like Обзор Документа  more -- sounds nice ;)
>>>
>>> Is it customary to translate the "proper name" of a piece of software?
>>>
>>> I figured it wasn't so I didn't mark the plugin name as translatable, but I see a few places in the UI file where I used it as a proper name but neglected to correctly capitalize it (I guess that's where the strings in question come from?)
>>>
>>> Should I mark the plugin name as translatable?
>>>
>>> Also, is it worthwhile to fix the capitalization in the English UI strings?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Matthew Brush
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> I18n@lists.geany.org
>>> https://lists.geany.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/i18n
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---------- Mensagem reencaminhada ----------
From: Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca>
To: i18n@lists.geany.org
Cc: 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 16:56:35 -0800
Subject: Re: [Geany-i18n] Incorrect russian translation of overview plugin
On 2016-01-15 9:21 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:

I see it like this: unique things, such as MS Word shouldn't be translated, and common things like "find and replace" should.
Overview is not unique (np++, sublime) and users will only suffer from incorrect translation or missing of translation. By the way overview is common English word, it's not a brand. Currently translation exists and it is incorrect.

Hmm, OK. But I guess MS Word isn't unique either, for example there's LibreOffice Writer which does the same thing but has a different name. Similarly, I don't think NP++ or Sublime call their minimap "Overview". The original name of the plugin was "Bird's Eye" (as in "Bird's Eye View"), but someone suggested the name "Overview", and I liked it, so I changed it.

Anyway, I guess there's no solid rules to follow in natural languages :)

If anyone wants to let me know if I should mark any of my plugins' names for translation and I'd happily do it, that way it will show up with a more meaningful name in the Plugin Manager dialog. Right now it looks like some plugins do this and some don't.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,
Matthew Brush

15 янв. 2016 г., в 17:56, Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca> написал(а):

On 2016-01-15 12:48 AM, Yan Pashkovskiy wrote:
I was talking about View - Show overview. If this string was
untranslated - it was hard to understand what is it. Plugin name
should be translateable too imho.

Mostly I was just wondering why it should be translated in some places and not in others. Looking at other plugins, it seems to be a mix of plugin names being translated or not. I was previously under the impression that proper names weren't to be translated, for example how plugin author names aren't translated. Is the rule that you only translate names of things but not people?

I guess an example would be 'Geany', does it get translated as well? Something with meaning of 'magic man who comes out of bottle'? If Geany doesn't get translated, would 'Overview' be translated if it's name was 'Goverview'? What about 'GeanyPy', would it be translated as 'Snake of the editor' or something?

Apologies if these are stupid questions, I just want to understand as I only speak English and French. In Canadian English and French I don't think proper names of things get translated (although people's names sometimes are - my name sometimes becomes Mathieu). But, for example, 'Hitachi' company name is not translated to 'Sunrise' in English, and 'Apple' computer name is not translated to 'Pomme' in French here.

I don't care either way, I just want to know what rule to consistently apply to my plugins' names, if possible.

Cheers,
Matthew Brush

As for Russian language: I don't know whether name should be
capitalized or not (grammar rules say that shouldn't, but it is
plugin name!). I just think it shouldn't be more than 20 symbols:
"карта документа", "обзор документа" are valid, but "показать обзор
документа" not (show document overview). And I also think that
"затемнение" is definitely bad l10n  :)

Regards, Yan

15 янв. 2016 г., в 11:22, Matthew Brush <mbrush@codebrainz.ca> написал(а):

On 2016-01-14 7:25 PM, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov wrote:
Hi,

In Russian writing "Обзор Документа" is incorrect - it should be
"Обзор документа"

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yan Pashkovsky <yanpaso@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, I've forgot to mention original naming, it is "затемнение". How can
I participate in renaming? I may provide git patch of ru.po (or just new
.po file)
By the way are there any plans to move to transifex or launchpad
translations? :) Seems to be handy tools

15.01.2016 01:34, Frank Lanitz пишет:

On 14.01.2016 23:22, Yan Pashkovsky wrote:
High everybody!

Overview plugin in russian l18n should be translated to "Обзор
Документа" or like in Notepad++ "Карта документа" (document map).
Currently it means eclipse, which is weird

Not a native, but somehow I like Обзор Документа  more -- sounds nice ;)

Is it customary to translate the "proper name" of a piece of software?

I figured it wasn't so I didn't mark the plugin name as translatable, but I see a few places in the UI file where I used it as a proper name but neglected to correctly capitalize it (I guess that's where the strings in question come from?)

Should I mark the plugin name as translatable?

Also, is it worthwhile to fix the capitalization in the English UI strings?

Cheers,
Matthew Brush
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