• <metadata_license>CC0-1.0</metadata_license>
• <pkgname>geany</pkgname>
• <name>Geany Integrated Development Environment</name>
• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>

• <summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</summary>

• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as +independent as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE +or GNOME. So it is using only the GTK2 toolkit and therefore you need +only the GTK2 runtime libraries to run Geany.</p>

• </description>

• <screenshots>

+<!-- Screenshots need to be 16:9 ratio but the ones here from the main website are not. Please

your document states "Ideally, all screenshots should have a 16:9 aspect ratio", nothing formally required.

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Shouldn't this be translatable?

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BTW, if this is so generic, hasn't a distribution already made something like that on their own that we could merely import (and adapt, if necessary)? That would at least suggest it might have slightly been tested (or not, who knows).

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Thanks for your comments. Some responses:

Your provided file doesn't have neither the required `releases` tag, nor the recommended `provides` tag.

I don't think either is really needed as of now, and frankly the `provides` tag could easily become a nightmare to maintain. Without either of these tags, geany shows up in my gnome-software pretty well, so it might be probably easiest for you folks to maintain a minimal appdata file, which is what I submitted.

Shouldn't this be translatable?

Yes, this should ideally be marked for translation. I will take a look at how this can be achieved.

BTW, if this is so generic, hasn't a distribution already made something like that on their own that we could merely import (and adapt, if necessary)? That would at least suggest it might have slightly been tested (or not, who knows).

This is relatively new, and is trickling down through distributions. Fedora and openSUSE (among others) have already adopted the appstream standard and have built tools to pool the appdata files from packages in their repositories (so that they show up in their software centres).

My personal interest here is just making geany more discoverable to openSUSE users, and this probably is one means to that end. I will also be happy to help out if this requires updating from time to time, but AFAIK this really requires quite low maintenance. E.g. change screenshots when the GUI changes in a major way, etc.

The appdata file as contributed here will likely make its way through openSUSE (because I already submitted there), so it will get some testing thereafter. Would you prefer to wait for that? The only testing so far is on my local system, where this has been seen to work so far.

I basically hate everything that tries and put the upstream (us) in downstream's (distributions) place. It's not our role, and a lot of upstream trying to be "smart" and "help" downstream just end up with a terrible mess that just make everyone's lives harder.

I am inclined to think that this would not require very high maintenance really. And it would really get much wider testing if you included it in your upstream releases ;-)

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@badshah400 pushed 1 commit.

4674d12 Change name to "Geany IDE".

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FYI, fedora ships a hand-crafted file in their .spec file:

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/geany.git/tree/geany.spec#n129

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Oh, one more thing: .appdata.xml file to be distributed by upstreams are in fact a SUBSET of AppStream; the spec is at

https://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/

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Does not belong into the appdata tile - this is inserted by whatever procuces the distro appstream. Upstream has no influence / information about used downstream package names

Incorporated suggestion: Dropped pkgname field.

generally, there is a trend toward /usr/share/metainfo - for new code I'd recommend following this move.

I have left the .appdata.xml file in /usr/share/appdata dir because most upstream packages incorporating similar files are doing the same, and most distros as well. This is obviously easy to change later.

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• <metadata_license>CC0-1.0</metadata_license>
• <_name>Geany IDE</_name>
• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>
• <_summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</_summary>
• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <_p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as +independent as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE +or GNOME. So it is using only the GTK2 toolkit and therefore you need +only the GTK2 runtime libraries to run Geany.</_p>

• </description>

• <screenshots>

+<!-- Screenshots need to be 16:9 ratio but the ones here from the main website are not. Please

• change the links to point to appropriate 16:9 sized screenshots. -->
  

So additional maintenance work required to keep screenshots updated? and which distro and theme do we make them for?

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I agree with @b4n, this is a distribution file and since distros are different it doesn't make sense for us to maintain this sort of thing.

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• <metadata_license>CC0-1.0</metadata_license>
• <_name>Geany IDE</_name>
• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>
• <_summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</_summary>
• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <_p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as +independent as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE +or GNOME. So it is using only the GTK2 toolkit and therefore you need +only the GTK2 runtime libraries to run Geany.</_p>

• </description>

• <screenshots>

+<!-- Screenshots need to be 16:9 ratio but the ones here from the main website are not. Please

• change the links to point to appropriate 16:9 sized screenshots. -->
  

Only if you want to. Think of this as as advertisement for your app. You choose to put the screenshots that best shows your app off.

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So I don't really get the apathy.

Not apathy, more like antipathy. :smile:

Well, providing a set of basic values for some generic tags to be included in the distributors data file is fine, but since it has none of the distro specific parts we shouldn't install it.

IMHO if distros want screenshots they should provide their own, taken on their distro with their theme so it matches the style of the rest of the software in the distribution. Otherwise it is an anti-advertisement.

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IMHO if distros want screenshots they should provide their own, taken on their distro with their theme so it matches the style of the rest of the software in the distribution. Otherwise it is an anti-advertisement.

How is this any different from providing screenshots on geany's homepage?

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Which distro and desktop environment do we provide the shots for? KDE

looks different to Gnome to Cinnamon to Unity and that difference is increased by differing themes used by the distros even for the same desktop.​

Seriously, you don't have to do anything. The appdata file in this PR already makes use of the screenshots on geany's home page. One could ask the same questions as to why those screenshots rather than some other screenshots are on that webpage. As long as these are screenshots of the app running on Linux, this should not be a problem. The screenshots are meant to be upstream advertisements, **they aren't meant to show how the app looks in the user's distro/whatever.** If you want to showcase how your app looks in different desktop env, the screenshots should reflect that, for instance.

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To be clear my beef is with the whole appstream premise. It is based on a commercial upstream model (not surprising really since the promoters seem to be Red Hat, Ubuntu and Suse) where upstream has a need to "advertise" and the resources to do so. No problem with the commercial guys advertising themselves, its their job, but Geany does not follow that model, and we don't seem to have any advertising/marketing gurus willing to contribute.

The only subject of discussion is whether including the appstream file (most of which is prepared already) in your releases hurts anyone or benefits anyone. I haven't seen one argument from you as to why it would displease anyone and I have already provided examples of how it can help some users -- indeed one more follows (toward the end of comment).

If you have philosophical issues with appstream, that is "beyond the scope of this pull request". I won't try to convince you otherwise. As stated earlier, my intent was limited to helping out **specifically in geany's case** to make it more discoverable on distros that have already adopted this feature. But of course, if as upstream you think it will be too much work to maintain the file, that is a ground for rejection of this PR indeed. It might be a bit concerning then that downstream packagers would likely be shipping their own versions of "unblessed" appstream files for geany (like Fedora does, openSUSE might follow suit) which may carry out-of-date or plain wrong info in some cases.

As I said in a previous post, its ok to provide a set of default xml tags for distros to use, but without the distro specific parts we shouldn't install it when Geany is built and installed from tarball or git. After all a user who has just done that, isn't going to need the application description.

She could still use e.g. gnome-software to write a review, etc.

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If it helps, over 900 other upstream projects are shipping AppData files. If it helps, without an AppData being supplied the application is invisible in the default software center in Suse, Arch, Ubuntu and Fedora. It works in Fedora 24 because someone wrote an AppData file and shipped it downstream, but it's madness to require all different distros to do the same thing for a file that's supposed to be written and kept up to date by upstream projects. I'm a proud Geany user (and have been for a very long time) and the attitudes I've heard here make me sad indeed.

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•  <_li>auto completion of XML and HTML tags</_li>
  

•  <_li>call tips</_li>
  

•  <_li>folding</_li>
  

•  <_li>many supported filetypes like C, Java, PHP, HTML, Python, Perl, Pascal</_li>
  

•  <_li>symbol lists</_li>
  

•  <_li>embedded terminal emulation</_li>
  

•  <_li>extensibility through plugins</_li>
  

• </ul>

• </description>

• <screenshots>

+<!-- Screenshots need to be 16:9 ratio but the ones here from the main website are not. Please

• change the links to point to appropriate 16:9 sized screenshots. -->
  

• <screenshot type="default">

•  <image height="600" width="800">http://www.geany.org/uploads/Gallery/geany_main.png</image>
  

• </screenshot>

• <screenshot type="default">

does it make sense to have more than one default screenshot?

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+<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?> +<component>

• <id type="desktop">geany.desktop</id>
• <metadata_license>CC0-1.0</metadata_license>
• <_name>Geany IDE</_name>
• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>
• <_summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</_summary>
• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <_p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as independent +as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE or GNOME. So it +is using only the GTK+ toolkit and therefore you need only the +GTK+ runtime libraries to run Geany.</_p>

• <ul>

List probably needs a heading like "Geany includes:"

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• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>
• <_summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</_summary>
• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <_p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as independent +as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE or GNOME. So it +is using only the GTK+ toolkit and therefore you need only the +GTK+ runtime libraries to run Geany.</_p>

• <ul>

•  <_li>syntax highlighting</_li>
  

•  <_li>code completion</_li>
  

•  <_li>auto completion of often used constructs like if, for and while</_li>
  

•  <_li>auto completion of XML and HTML tags</_li>
  

•  <_li>call tips</_li>
  

Does everybody know what "call tips" means?

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@badshah400 Using the README was a good start, but its not really targeted at the end-user so some changes suggested.

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@elextr the file is not meant to be modified - there is no need... the pkgname does not belong into the AppData file...

Whatever process collects all distro provided appdata files and produces AppStream metadata is responsible to add the pkgname (which is also the point where all this info is available)

openSUSE and Fedora at least use appstream-builder for this task: you throw it at a bunch of RPMs, it extracts appdata info, does some black magic and produces and AppStream metafile, which then ends up in the repository metadata.

Hope that clarifies things a bit

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@elextr it needs to be part of the RPM at least at the moment it is being scanned by appstream-builder (and rpm means installed)

Additionally, Software Centers use the local information to assess what is there (next to querying package managers, most notably through PackageKit at this moment).

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Related: https://sourceforge.net/p/geany/feature-requests/739/

@codebrainz Ah! thanks, I knew we already had something like that, just couldn't seem to find it.

The appdata file as contributed here will likely make its way through openSUSE (because I already submitted there), so it will get some testing thereafter. Would you prefer to wait for that? The only testing so far is on my local system, where this has been seen to work so far.

Well, I'm less interested on whether it's working than whether it's useful. We could ship something specific for Atari distributions, but I hardly think it'd be of any use :) Ok that's unfair, but you get the point: even if it's a current technology, if it isn't done in a way that make it useful there's no point. And as I have zero knowledge about that -- and that the specs you all linked are clunky -- I hardly have any way to really say.

FYI, fedora ships a hand-crafted file in their .spec file:

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/geany.git/tree/geany.spec#n129

That's interesting to know, thanks. Looking at it it doesn't look too different from what this PR shows, which is probably good.

release and provides tags are listed as 'suggested', not required (not even in the recommended list):

Well, this specification is very inconsistent. Indeed in some places it shows example of not using them, but https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-Metadata.html#spec-... clearly states that *"The XML for a generic component definition starts with an `<component>` tag as root element. The `<component>` element must at least have an `id`, `name` and `releases` tag, a `provides` tag with appropriate children is highly recommended.*". So it's hard to know what to believe.

It might be a bit concerning then that downstream packagers would likely be shipping their own versions of "unblessed" appstream files for geany (like Fedora does, openSUSE might follow suit) which may carry out-of-date or plain wrong info in some cases.

Just like would the same file here if we don't update it. And updating it means we know how, and don't forget about it. It's more likely someone knowing why they want that file remember to update it together with a new version of the software.

...

As I said in a previous post, its ok to provide a set of default xml tags for distros to use, but without the distro specific parts we shouldn't install it when Geany is built and installed from tarball or git. After all a user who has just done that, isn't going to need the application description.

She could still use e.g. gnome-software to write a review, etc.

That doesn't make much sense to me, and @elextr point seem valid. Where would that review go? if it's into a distribution-specific repository, it has to match what the *distribution* provides, so there's no point in installing it from custom manual installations. Same applies to which version it is for (that one could be addressed with a `<release>` info I guess).

---

You might also have heard about snappy and flatpak - two methods currently worked on in producing 'bundled' applications. This can be 'on your own' infra or, more likely to happen, in a cross-distro appstore like setup ('store does not mean commercial here, allthough these options might be arising too).

flatpak for sure is basing it's application presentation on the .appdata.xml files - snappy is likely to follow suite....

Those cross-distro app-stores would give you even more power over reaching the users with updates at the time you want them to happen, no longer having to wish for goodwill from random distribution projects... having your leg-work done in preparation for this can only be beneficial for you.

Stop right here if you want to convince me or @elextr, we both have strong beefs against that Flatpack and Snappy craziness :) One of my own being specifically that it removes downstream. But that's not so much the subject here.

Regarding your question about the screenshots: they are meant to only show your application. Of course you can have different window styling, depending on the desktop environment you run in, but this is by far not as important as being able to show ANYTHING to your user what they can expect. Of course a 'KDE Application' will likely be shown with upstream KDE styling, GNOME Apps with upstream GNOME Styling... you can present your app in a way that makes users want it.

That's not exactly what the [docs](https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-Quickstart.html#qsr...) say: they seem to say "you should use the default theme" (and apparently that doesn't even include your distro's specific ones, as what looks like an Ubuntu screenshot to me is deemed *"BAD: Uses custom font, custom color theme"*).

Distributors are there to help you GET the application to the user... convincing the user that YOUR project is the right one to use is your task

Well, actually not really. We're not here to sell anything to anyone, we provide an application, and if people like it and want to use it, that's great. If they don't, that's just as fine. We aren't an ad company, and we have actually little to gain in having more users. We just try to make a good application, and whatever happens from there is fine.

Software Centers != Package Managers... Test GNOME Software and/or KDE Discover - they read also installed files in /usr/share/appdata; which is why it can be beneficial for make install to do it...

What is the use of those software centers if the application is installed? (and even more so, if the application was *manually* installed) That's a genuine question. I tried launching gnome-software on my Debian Unstable, and what I see is a very slow app (kinda unfair point I guess), and I can run installed apps (doesn't seem of much use to me to go through that to launch an app), write a review (see above), and the rest seem to be package management stuff.

One pro for adding the appdata file though might be *not* to be listed as a foreign, non-free app in there, as Geany currently is (probably through it's desktop file?). Which though, is unfair from that gnome-software thing, but well.

@elextr it needs to be part of the RPM at least at the moment it is being scanned by appstream-builder (and rpm means installed)

There is no need to install a file in our build system just so the packagers have it. They can install it just fine on their own if they want, that's not ours to decide -- just like they can remove files from the package if they don't want them (think about `.la` if you think they don't). If that's the only reason to install the appdata file, it would be what I feared before: doing things that don't improve our releases because we think we know better what downstream needs.

Additionally, Software Centers use the local information to assess what is there (next to querying package managers, most notably through PackageKit at this moment).

I'd think at least gnome-software uses desktop files for that purpose too. And it sounds hardly sensible to require metadata just to know whether the application is there or not (short of the `<provides>`, maybe).

However, as the *appdata* docs do say we should install it as an upstream, we probably should if we have it, and just not think too much of it. It's not like it does more harm than wasting a few bytes on the user's drive.

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• <metadata_license>CC0-1.0</metadata_license>
• <_name>Geany IDE</_name>
• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>
• <_summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</_summary>
• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <_p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as independent +as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE or GNOME. So it +is using only the GTK+ toolkit and therefore you need only the +GTK+ runtime libraries to run Geany.</_p>

• <ul>

•  <_li>syntax highlighting</_li>
  

•  <_li>code completion</_li>
  

•  <_li>auto completion of often used constructs like if, for and while</_li>
  

Well… that's a question of how it reads, because "often used" is somewhat more true, it doesn't have to specifically be language constructs (this is talking about snippets)

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@badshah400 pushed 2 commits.

7f9bcab Update Makefile.am logic for appdata file. 2be68cb Update appstream file with inputs from PR#1142.

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Incorporated suggestions from the comments in this PR. Thanks @elextr, @b4n, @DimStar77 for your reviews. Please let me know if I missed something.

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@badshah400 pushed 1 commit.

ed86b5a Incorporate new suggestions from PR#1142.

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• </ul>

• </description>

• <screenshots>

+<!-- Screenshots are recommended to be 16:9 ratio but the ones here from the main website are not. Please

• change the links to point to appropriate 16:9 sized screenshots. -->
  

• <screenshot type="default">

•  <image height="808" width="942">http://www.geany.org/uploads/Gallery/geany_main.png</image>
  

• </screenshot>

• <screenshot>

•  <image height="808" width="942">http://www.geany.org/uploads/Gallery/geany_build.png</image>
  

• </screenshot>

• <screenshot>

•  <image height="808" width="942">http://www.geany.org/uploads/Gallery/geany_vte.png</image>
  

• </screenshot>

• </screenshots>

• <update_contact>https://github.com/geany/geany</update_contact>

It's unfortunately unclear whether anything else than an email address is allowed. But well, I prefer that.

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Maybe we should add `<translation type="gettext">@GETTEXT_PACKAGE@</translation>`?

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@badshah400 pushed 3 commits.

0eac4c6 Add translation field to appstream file. 976898a Fix tab vs space issue, other formatting. 32c4f45 Change install dir to /usr/share/metainfo.

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@badshah400 need to fix the travis failures.

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Meh, indeed apparently it's not possible to translate a built file. Bummer.

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• <project_license>GPL-2.0+</project_license>
• <_summary>A fast and lightweight IDE using GTK+</_summary>
• <url type="homepage">http://geany.org/</url>

• <description>

• <_p>Geany is a small and lightweight integrated development environment.

+It was developed to provide a small and fast IDE, which has only a +few dependencies from other packages. Another goal was to be as independent +as possible from a special Desktop Environment like KDE or GNOME. So it +is using only the GTK+ toolkit and therefore you need only the +GTK+ runtime libraries to run Geany.</_p>

• <ul>

•  <_li>syntax highlighting</_li>
  

•  <_li>code completion</_li>
  

•  <_li>auto completion of often used constructs like if, for and while</_li>
  

•  <_li>auto completion of XML and HTML tags</_li>
  

•  <_li>call tips</_li>
  

probably not, any other suggestion?

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There still are comment not dealt with, even though they got hidden by the file move.

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•  <_li>auto completion of XML and HTML tags</_li>
  

•  <_li>call tips</_li>
  

•  <_li>folding</_li>
  

•  <_li>many supported filetypes like C, Java, PHP, HTML, Python, Perl, Pascal</_li>
  

•  <_li>symbol lists</_li>
  

•  <_li>embedded terminal emulation</_li>
  

•  <_li>extensibility through plugins</_li>
  

• </ul>

• </description>

• <screenshots>

+<!-- Screenshots need to be 16:9 ratio but the ones here from the main website are not. Please

• change the links to point to appropriate 16:9 sized screenshots. -->
  

• <screenshot type="default">

•  <image height="600" width="800">http://www.geany.org/uploads/Gallery/geany_main.png</image>
  

• </screenshot>

• <screenshot type="default">

Geany has a pretty fixed UI, so I suggest not.

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Closed #1142.